Has the Nissan GT-R been beaten already? So quick after claiming the fastest time around the Green Hell (known to us little people as the Nurburgring), GT-R appears to have lost its top dog status to the new 2009 Corvette ZR1. According to Corvette chief engineer Tadge Juechter, the ZR1 has, just yesterday morning, lapped the Ring in a time of 7 minutes 26.4 seconds. The car was stock standard except for the communications and safety equipment. No elaboration on what exactly this safety equipment is, but standard issue would include a fire extinguisher, in case the fast ZR1 pulled an R8 V10. Tires were stock too, and so was fuel, which was normal pump juice and not racing liquid.
Development engineer Jim Mero drove the car’s rims off from a rolling start, but felt he could have gone even quicker around a few places. A strong headwind was felt rushing through the main straight as well. The Corvette ZR1 will go on sale later this year across special dealerships all over the globe. It will come with an extremely willing 638 bhp/ 475kW, 6.2-liter supercharged engine which can shoot the thunderous ZR1 from nothing to 60 mph in 3.4 seconds, casting the quarter mile asunder in a blinking 11.3 seconds. Whoa!
We've been promised in-car video evidence of the run, just in case some are sceptical of the achievement. So do Vette fanatics finally have something to boast about when comparing size with Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Nissan and Honda fans? A Corvette that not only smacks competition around with power, but also out-handles the best of them?
Corvette ZR1 Laps Nurburgring in 7 min 26
GT-R Beaten!
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Comments
that is pretty impressive. Didn't Lutz promise it would beat any production car around the track, maybe they've delivered. I think it looks pretty go too.
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by jslcarfan | June 28, 2008 12:32 AM
So obvious this was going to happen. Who would doubt a 'Vette.
by Meeshka | June 30, 2008 3:17 AM
GT-Raped? Nice job corvette.
by out4ride | June 28, 2008 12:45 AM
HAHA, no comparison in terms of power per tonn, or power-to-weight ratio!! Nonetheless, the GT-R V-spec will break it into pieces.. WE ALL KNOW THAT!!!
by NitrousOxide | June 28, 2008 12:58 AM
i don't, and i'd love to see it battle with the GT2
by boyke69 | June 28, 2008 4:35 PM
oh, and i forgot the NSX and others : )
by boyke69 | June 28, 2008 4:40 PM
V-Spec proto: 7:25 in early develpoment, LF-A proto: 7:24 in early development, Honda's top brass has mandated a GT-R beating 'Ring time for the new NSX, Porsche is coming out with it's dual clutch PDK tranny and direct injection for the 911,... the ZR1 is atop the heap for now, and that's an amazing achievement but I think it's only logical to assume it won't be there for too long. Competition is such a wonderful thing. :)
by jamaicandude | June 28, 2008 9:29 PM
Congrats to Chevrolet. that's a really impressive time, this will have other car companies chasing their tails, but in saying that Nissan still have the v-spec to do some damage and it wont be long before another car company take the lead..
by mortz | June 28, 2008 12:46 AM
It was the R8 V12 diesel that went on fire not V10.
by out4ride | June 28, 2008 12:48 AM
i'm pretty sure it was the V10 lol... 90% sure
by carcrazy1234 | June 28, 2008 1:27 AM
Better to remain quiet and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt :-)
by homerlovesbeer | June 28, 2008 8:54 AM
It was the v10 that went into flames i just read it, go to Audi on this site and there's two articles with comments on the v10 flaming it up
by mortz | June 28, 2008 12:10 PM
that's why i was only 90% sure, just in case i WAS made a fool... but i guess i wasn't this time :P noones perfect hahah
by carcrazy1234 | June 28, 2008 4:45 PM
I love the vette but 7.0 liters? ... or 6.2 liter supercharged push-rod engine? Come on, I don't even consider it in the same class as the competition. Engineering anyone? I wonder how wide those tires are too? Still, posting better numbers that the GT-R shouldn't surprise anyone, although I've heard of Nissan's bad boy running high 10's threw the 1/4 mile (3.3 sec 0-60 times). Having not driven either car, I still say it could be a drivers race. It'll be really interesting to see these two go head to head, hopefully sooner rather than later!
by RobERob | June 28, 2008 12:51 AM
Whats wrong with the engine ? it works, and will wirk for 50 years or more with the right maintenance. Push-rod = Less moving parts = less wear and tear around the engine ;). If it aint broke dont fix it and the American V8 certainly isnt broken.
by Xanavi23 | June 28, 2008 1:27 AM
Actually, OHV engines have more recipricating components/mass than OHC engines. Thats why most pushrod engines have lower redlines. There are ways to engineer around this, as we can see through this product!
by benz_man | June 28, 2008 8:23 PM
Considering its weight and power it's not that impressive, yet an excellent time and a gorgeous looking car. Totally different philosophy from Nissan, well done Chevy !
by Monkey | June 28, 2008 12:53 AM
beast beast
by illest813 | June 28, 2008 1:11 AM
in ya face japan. makes the GT-R look pretty average now, hehe.
by catchmyshadow | June 28, 2008 1:17 AM
average?? haha ur nuts man truly nuts. just cuz the NORMAL GTR got beat by 3 seconds doesn't mean its average now lol. Wait til the V-spec. like seriously... theres a GTR and a GTR V-spec... just like the ZO6 and the ZR-1. the ZR-1 1 beat the GTR, but has it beat the V-spec??? average... haha wow
by carcrazy1234 | June 28, 2008 1:30 AM
well i think the ZR1 did made the GT-R look average, but i'll wait for the V spec and see how it compares
by boyke69 | June 28, 2008 4:38 PM
"Looks average" is a compliment. It "looks" horrible compared to the Vette's beauty.
by RSer | June 28, 2008 8:42 PM
i still don't get why people think the GTR is so ugly?? like seriously... what's so ugly about it?? keep in mine its made for function more than beauty. Its a very nice looking, aggressive but not overly agressive car. The corvette is also a very nice looking car. so what the hell is your point in that comment??? we're clearly talking about performance figures here, not looks.
by carcrazy1234 | June 29, 2008 3:50 AM
Hail to the King...there was never any doubt. Even the V-spec will have a hard-time putting away this nasty beast.
by Xanavi23 | June 28, 2008 1:25 AM
the v-spec has already done a 7.25 unofficial lap, beating the vette will be a piece of cake for Nissan,
by mortz | June 28, 2008 1:28 AM
The ZR1 was a stock production setup, was the GT-R's? Just curious, haven't heard one way or the other.
by anun4 | July 14, 2008 6:28 AM
GM shows that the GT-R is NOT that special as many thought and that pretty much any carmaker in the world can make fast cars and will be able to be` king of the ring` for a few weeks if they concentrate on that single aim, till the next carmaker claims the benchmark there. What is left, if the GT-R isn´t the fastest on the ring anymore? nothing, cause the whole concept, prestige and attraction is based on it! unlike porsche, ferrari, atson martin, maserati, lamborghini etc. who don´t have the pressure to always be the fastest, these cars have something more to offer: SOUL and SPIRIT
by catchmyshadow | June 28, 2008 1:51 AM
GTR not that special?????????????? In order to beat the GTR the zr1 gas 168hp more than the GTR and weighs 500 pounds less than the GTR. To beat it by only 3 seconds on a 10 mile track should be embarrassing!!!!!! I do however give chevy credit. Its still a good car.
by pzigly | June 28, 2008 10:38 AM
pzigly has a point... tells you a lot about chevy's chassis/suspension setup! and catchmyshadow has it in one there. GT-R is no longer the fastest round the ring, no longer 'king of the ring', so the one-trick-pony GT-R is suddenly looking like a bit of a loser. now it doesnt have the king of the ring status, it can't hold a candle to the likes of porsche, ferrari, lambo, mclaren and the rest. sorry guys, but the GT-R's only true point of brilliance has been nicked off of it by chevy!
by Lucifa | June 29, 2008 12:45 PM
You cant compare the ZR1 to the regular GTR. You have to compare the spec-v to the zr1. With the spec-v having less weight and more HP there will be no problem regaining its crown.
by pzigly | June 30, 2008 12:48 PM
true, but that still leaves the regular GT-R in a rather awkward position...
by Lucifa | June 30, 2008 2:55 PM
The GTR put just about every supercar in a akward position......gm and nissan actually...
by pzigly | July 1, 2008 5:38 AM
GT-R put most supercars in a bad position because it beat them all on the ring. but gm put the GT-R in an even worse position because the GT-R's entire purpose for being is that its the king of the ring and all other racetracks, especially as it beats all the more expensive cars. suddenly GM's beating them, and thereby taking this away from them, so GT-R has a slight image problem... not that it will have a sales problem, obviously!
by Lucifa | July 1, 2008 2:19 PM
Not really because the GTR is so much more safer at the limit.
by pzigly | July 2, 2008 7:28 AM
Soul and spirit is in the eye of the beholder, datsun have an awesome rep and a skyline has as much soul as any other over priced big name car, the gtr is a special car in terms of technology as the gtr 470hp and 1740kg the vette 638hp and 1519kg, the gtr is a car that can perform with its handicaps and still a car where you can take the kids up to the mountains for a ski, just remember the gtr is the standard version nissan have a v-spec model to bring out yet..
by mortz | June 28, 2008 2:05 AM
Eh. I'd still go for the GT-R for its precision in engineering compared to the brute all out tactic associated with this car. The V spec will certainly rip this car into peices no doubt. At least something for us Americans to brag about for a while until the V spec does what it does.
by RS5 | June 28, 2008 2:23 AM
FYI the Zr1 will not beat the current gtr on a small track. The only tracks that the zr1 will beat the GTR are tracks that you can get up to 120mph or more. The GTR will still beat it in handling and some of the testers have gotten its 0-60 on 3.3sec.
by pzigly | June 28, 2008 10:43 AM
Don´t tell me u wanna compare a datsun with a ferrari or porsche, in terms of class, soul and history and the worldwide appreciation of those brands, that´s hilarious :D.
P.S. Even if the V-Spec is able to beat the 7:26, the NSX is waiting, then the LF-A, then the Turbo S etc etc. as said, take away the benchmark and the GT-R is just another fast car among dozens of others and it won`t last long.
by catchmyshadow | June 28, 2008 2:26 AM
Datsun (nissan) was winning races in japan around 1936 and have 70 years of speed and victory, how long has Porsche been racing??
by mortz | June 28, 2008 12:47 PM
ha the japanese, for all their technical skill and ability to make a blisteringly fast and capable car, just cannot bring the soul to their cars in the way the europeans can and the yanks can bring to their muscle cars like this..
by Lucifa | June 30, 2008 12:37 PM
Wait a second. What do you guys mean by standard gt-r? We all know the one at the ring was not. Didn't nissan said so. What if they tested the V spec?
by out4ride | June 28, 2008 2:32 AM
no that was a standard gtr.
by pzigly | June 28, 2008 10:45 AM
the standard time was 7:29
by pzigly | June 28, 2008 10:45 AM
Was European GT-R. Nothing else.
by mps | June 28, 2008 2:51 PM
u will never really know if a car who claims the benchmark on the ring was stock to the bone, whether it is a Nissan, GM, Honda, Zonda or Porsche. In reality the time is pretty useless anyway, cause the average driver or let´s say 99,9% of the customers will never be able to get near such laps and therefore won`t notice a real objective difference in performance between these super fast cars on the street. so at the end of the day other factors are important (sound, fun-factor, quality, styling, tradition, emotion etc.).
by catchmyshadow | June 28, 2008 2:54 AM
The v-spec has an unofficial time of 7.25 and the production model that did the 7.29 was the version for the American and european market which had a few minor tweaks that differ from the japanese production version.
Catchmyshadow have you ever followed nissan motor sport way back from the 1960s? ever heard of the datsun1200, 1600 or the Datsun 180b and even the earlier gtrs the fairlady just a few cars that are renowned for their performance, and then the beginning of the godzilla (1989 skyline r32 gtr) if there was no 280ps limit to japanese cars then the gtr would of been competing with porsche a long time ago. as i said people will always have a different point of view its all about personal choice. if you raced some of the early ero, and American cars against the earlier datsun you would be surprised ( as the crew from top gear pointed out in one episode)
by mortz | June 28, 2008 2:55 AM
there were a lot others, like audi or mercedes who were able to build fast cars too but all of these share the same problem: they are producing products for the masses. Nissan produces Micras and many other boring mass cars, the same with GM and Honda. They will never ever be able to compete with pure and true sportscar manufacturers in terms of emotion and image, the essence of sportscars. it´s a fact, simple as that. producing mass cars like civics, micras or a matiz kills any myth or real unique prestige and feeling imho, even if it has a 500 horses. take away the ring time....
by catchmyshadow | June 28, 2008 3:21 AM
Mortz, the GT-R has a great history in racing HOWEVER...you cannot compare the history that the Skylines and Nissan as a whole have compared to say Porsche and the 911 which for at least 70% of lifetime has benefited from what Porsche did in the race world. When it comes to the Soul of a car, Porsche has Nissan beat to an unstoppable level. The Porsche is a continuous evolution of 40 years always changing for the better. Porsche has dominated the motoring world save for F1 and Nascar for decades in terms of various championships over the years(which helps road porsches). All of that and the very story of Porsche puts the 911 in a place where very few cars can touch it when it comes to soul and the essence of a sportscar. The GT-R will have need more years til its quite there. For now, Cars that have always evolved more rather than change like the Corvette and 911 are in a status of their own.
by Xanavi23 | June 28, 2008 3:59 AM
Yea don't get me wrong i love Porsche and i use to be a huge fan of knight rider but i still say its personal preference and where you live (Myself NZ), as for myself before i was even at high school 1980s my father use to rave on about a 3litre skyline turbo and the datsuns 1200 and 1600 and then in 1990 when the gtr(1989 nissan gtr r32 600hp) was introduced into the australian touring car champs against the bmw, ford sierra cosworth, ford falcons and the Holden commodores and the skyline couldn't lose a race until the Australians got sick of the gtr smashing the fords and Holden's (and i bet they would say the commodores and falcons have more soul and prestige) so they banned it they just didn't like change and because it was different. but you are right when it comes to styling and status that comes with the image of driving an expensive european car and it also comes with a hefty price, but they do look the part it isn't hard to tell a porsche ( which model is a different story) ferrari or lambo, auston, vette, etc coming down the street and yes they do have a more of a wow factor than a nissan or toyota but to say that nissan haven't evolved from racing thats incorrect, the datsuns 1200 and 1600, the nissan skyline, the fairlady the pulsar GTir the 200sx the nissan primera in the Brit touring car champs and the list goes on the gtr was founded well before it hit the nurburgring and if there was no such thing as the nurburgrind the gtr legend would still be the same because there would be other race tracks around the world to dominate, here in new zealand has a huge reputation for being a performance car that goes hard no matter what its put up againts and still with a safe four wheel drive system and room for lugage in the boot and back seats and room for 1000hp under the bonnet and can still be used for a every day car and the price. and nissan dont bring out a new gtr every year 1989-1992=r32 1995-1999=r33 2000-2002=r34 and now the r35 2008 and id hate to think how much time well have to wait for the r36?? this goes to show how much passion nissan have and the energy they have put in to catch up with the best (Porsche etc) but in terms of looking like a super-car sure maybe not in your eyes but its typical nissan function over form. and if i had all the money in the world id still by a gtr for its performance and ability to be an every day car. and a 911 second
by mortz | June 28, 2008 9:45 AM
*The Corvette and 911 are in this status also because they have been in continuous production for over 40-50 years*
by Xanavi23 | June 28, 2008 4:00 AM
I'd like to dedicate this article to all my friends who remind me that the Vette has rear leaf springs. I guess they are still more useful than a supercomputer and torque-splitting all wheel drive.
by mustang5507 | June 28, 2008 5:02 AM
If you really want to compare them, try: GT-R - Corvette V-Spec - ZR1 Also try compare the build quality, interior, usability, most of all, the capacity(fuel consumption). ZR1 is a cool car, but when it's up to choosing which one to spend your hard-work-money on, well, the number of sales will tell.
by Micbozy | June 28, 2008 5:47 AM
Um Im pretty sure that Chevy and nissan will sell all of these cars they produce. These cars aren't about sales numbers thats why their only made in limited numbers.
by gmfan09 | June 28, 2008 7:57 AM
I'm just sitting back and enjoying this power war
by Albe | June 28, 2008 7:37 AM
Dont worry about me!! I know what GT-R is, and I know what this crappy American Car is too.. If the Car was having the same power-to-weight ratio, it should produce 730 horsepower... MOREOVER, This car did not beat the un-official timing of the V-spec: 7:25.. SO PLEASE SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by NitrousOxide | June 28, 2008 5:47 PM
Most of the people here are prejudiced against American automobiles and it shows in what they post. Engineering and manufacturing ability is found in every country. The GTR is a great car. The Corvette ZR1 is a great car that is a faster car. Give credit where credit is due. Well done Corvette/GM .
by Benzian | June 28, 2008 2:11 PM
Stop arguing about which car beats which...we all know the nurburgring lap time will be brought down to less then 7 minuets if they keep competing like that.
by BavarianMS | June 28, 2008 10:44 AM
catchmyshadow had it right. to most of the people who buy these cars they'll stay under a cover in a garage 6 days a week and when they do take them out they have nowhere near the talent to notice these small differences in lap times. this aside, however, you must realise the futility of this whole lap time malarky anyway! in 6 weeks there'll be another car even faster, 6 weeks later there will be another even faster, its pointless! that aside as well, the only car in recent history which was actually able to hold onto its records for any respectable period of time was mclaren f1, and from all accounts mclaren's going to give that another go after they've brought out their smaller, less powerful car first. just wait; the japanese trumped the germans, the yanks trumped the japanese, but the plucky brit will likely own them all.
by Lucifa | June 28, 2008 10:53 AM
Didnt the mclaren use a V12 BMW engine??
by mortz | June 28, 2008 11:16 PM
and bmw suspension, brakes, transmission (i think) and some others =P and the 6.0 V12 derived from the old 750 iL/850 Ci, yes. but still, considering they could pull 200hp more out of that engine than bmw could, youd think a bespoke mclaren engine would be something to reckon with...
by Lucifa | June 29, 2008 8:03 AM
In order to beat the GTR the zr1 has 168hp more than the GTR and weighs 500 pounds less than the GTR. To beat it by only 3 seconds on a 10 mile track should be embarrassing!!!!!! I do however give chevy credit. Its still a good car. Better than the crap they were making in the 90's.
by pzigly | June 28, 2008 10:55 AM
well done to the zr1 and the chevy crew...and to all the numbnuts bitching about which is faster...I can garuntee you cannot do a better job with that budget. they both are street legal machines and are outstanding in every aspect...but i would never the less tip my hat to them for such magnificent creations
by DimeNickel | June 28, 2008 11:55 AM
I always knew red meat would beat white rice!
by Davethepetrolhead | June 28, 2008 12:01 PM
lmao that is a good analogy, espically the part where the red meat gives you a heart attack as soon as you hit it hard while the white rice keeps you healthy and has no damage if you do hit it hard...
by pzigly | June 28, 2008 12:21 PM
hahhaha pzigly that's great :P!!! pwned and so true lol
by carcrazy1234 | June 28, 2008 4:50 PM
agreed, the analogy is good cause rice tastes like sh... ;)
by catchmyshadow | June 28, 2008 12:46 PM
@ Catchmyshadow atleast you understood my comment "rice" is Sh!t
by Davethepetrolhead | June 28, 2008 4:18 PM
that's why you mix things with the rice to make it good :P plain rice is sh*t lol
by carcrazy1234 | June 28, 2008 4:52 PM
red meat = muscle power white rice= Brain power and usable energy In terms of usable energy
by mortz | June 28, 2008 1:19 PM
I'd buy both and test them myself. But also yeah... pretty sure the V-spec will beat the time, so better start making a 7.0 l vette soon.
by mps | June 28, 2008 3:05 PM
@ Mortz..dont get me wrong brother, i know Nissan/Datsun does have good racing experience for MANY years with the 510s and so forth. Nissan despite what haters will tell you has been racing for about 30 years now and has done admirably. The skyline also has benifited from the race track but probably not as much as Porsche but they are or were 2 different companies back then, so u cant take too much from Nissan. As for Porsche yea its a luxury car and theres the status of it all, but honestly i never meant that because thats not why ild buy a Porsche, for me its the race-proven, incredibly aerodynamics, the History among other performance things that drive me crazy for any Porsche. Make no mistake...ild buy an R35 if i could, i do love the car, although i dont love its electronics, just not before a Porsche. The GT-R is a kind of supercar in my eyes or a sportscar with supercar performance. Its a great machine and i dont hate on it, Nissan has done EXTREMELY well. I only meant Nissan cant compete so easily against Porsches Soul not that Nissan doesnt deserve to be in competition with Porsche. That would be me being one of "those guys" lol. Nissan and the GT-R do have soul...its just a bit less than Porsche. But the heart is still there as it always was with the GT-R ;).
by Xanavi23 | June 28, 2008 3:17 PM
id love to see porsche develop the cayman with a more powerful engine to do the nurburgring i think because the engine is set more over the rear wheels towards the center would be a nice balance maybe with a twin turbo set up???
by mortz | June 28, 2008 10:58 PM
Guys, dont go that far, although Vette has an old but nice looking exterior, the interior looks like sh.... Would you wanna spend hours in it on a highway?
by trailer | June 28, 2008 3:25 PM
"it looks like my father's Oldsmobile, this is not the new generation..."
by trailer | June 28, 2008 3:31 PM
Huh?
by gmfan09 | June 28, 2008 5:04 PM
even more surpirising then that the "old goat" owns the megasuperhypedrocketscienceequipped GT-R :D
by catchmyshadow | June 28, 2008 4:44 PM
If they copyed Audis front and DSG they should do the same with interior.
by out4ride | June 28, 2008 5:22 PM
You genius, the GT-R had the front face before Audi, since the early 2000s. Moreover, the DSG is a new revolution in world of gearboxes; Every company will follow it too.. Bugatti, Audi, VW, BMW, Porsche, Lexus, Mitsubishi are all using DSGs in thier performance cars.. Say something useful or dont at all!
by NitrousOxide | June 28, 2008 5:54 PM
This car is America at its best, but the GT-R isnt!! The V-spec is on its way!!!! WE ALL know what GT-R is, and what this crappy American Car is too.. If the GT-R was having the same power-to-weight ratio, it should produce 730 horsepower... MOREOVER, This car did not beat the "un-official" timing of the V-spec: 7:25.. SO PLEASE SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by NitrousOxide | June 28, 2008 5:51 PM
MOST everyone posting here is really not thinking clearly. They are both amazing cars. Those of you bashing pushrod engines need to wake up. It is just a different way of producint power. I imagine the LSA engine isn't much heavier than the GTR's and it is just as high tech. It is just a totally different way of doing things. As for the guy who commented about the size of the tires on the Vette - are you serious? That's like bashing the GTR because it is AWD. If you have 600+ HP and need to get it to the ground, you're going to need some massive tires.
For those of you comparing GTR, GTR V spec, C6, Z06, ZR1 - the base GTR and the Z06 are probably pretty fair comparison. The GTR IS faster than the Z06. The V Spec/ ZR1 comparo really isn't fair though. I've heard the V Spec is pretty much a stripped down racer. That is NOT what the ZR1 is. It has everyhthing that a normal C6 has. All of the weight savings was done in the suspension, body, etc. I think the Z06/Base GTR is a fair comparo.
As for track times... I imagine the GTR (in any form) would be faster if any of us were driving it. It is just easier to go fast when you have an amazing AWD system. It is much more forgiving. I do think that the Vettes when pushed by an experienced driver, could hang with the GTR. From what I know, the Vette is a car that takes some getting used to. Once a driver learns the limits and begins to trust the car, it can perform at a whole new level. I've seen comments in other blogs saying the vette will only be driven by old slow guys. I don't imagine that will happen. I think those who get a ZR1 will have some fun with it and if you ever see one show up at a road course event with a GTR it will come down to the driver.
Finally, they are both AMAZING cars. Look up Nurburgring times and see who they both beat. It is stunning. For the price the GT-R and Vette are in the class of their own. There is NOTHING that can touch them. If anything Chevy and Nissan fans should be laughing their heads off at the Italians and Germans. Pretty impressive that they both go about getting the speed in very different ways, but are still faster than any mid-engine car from Europe... that is stunning.
by deyob | June 28, 2008 6:00 PM
First NEUTRAL comment in this debate!!!! Well said Deyob :).. However, We are judging cars depending on one philosophy here: best representitive of each maker; thats why we brought the V-spec here!!
by NitrousOxide | June 28, 2008 6:24 PM
why? italian and german sportscar manufacturers don´t need to raise attention like nissan or others, they are in the spotlight naturally. They have more to offer and will sell regardless of the any ring time or price cause customers are willing to pay almost any price, but they wouldn´t pay so much for a nissan, that´s for sure. so to me these italians and germans are the clever people here.
by catchmyshadow | June 28, 2008 6:26 PM
Because those buyers did not come to buy the abilities, they came to buy the pristege, only.. "I have a Ferrari", thats it.. But when it comes to achievements, those who know cars will put them under the same scope!! Coz they all are hyped up cars, and These new comers are hard to beat!
by NitrousOxide | June 28, 2008 6:50 PM
You guys are comparing apples to oranges.it's about what you you prefere italian exotics,American muscle or high tech japs.It comes down to what you can afford and what suits the driving conditions in each of your respective countries.don't hate for the sake of hating
by ALBE | June 28, 2008 7:14 PM
Best Reply EVER!!!!!!!!!
by NitrousOxide | June 28, 2008 7:46 PM
Very thoughtful reply, ALBE. Both cars are quick and fast. The question is, which car you can afford?
by American-Rules | June 30, 2008 3:05 PM
ps well done Gm
by ALBE | June 28, 2008 7:28 PM
It´s not about lap time, 0-60, horse power, etc? It´s about the sensation along the way!
by Paulds | June 28, 2008 7:45 PM
There is the eventuallity that this car will knock more time off its Laptime. The GT-Rs first time was 7:40...for all we know, the ZR1 could knock 2-3 seconds off.
by Xanavi23 | June 28, 2008 7:46 PM
Check out the nurburgring records it shows the team from chev have already had many atempts
by mortz | June 30, 2008 11:47 AM
These records will be beaten soon enough whats the point of arguing. 3 secs difference in a lap time is nothing.....it puts them even performance wise, it all comes down to which car is funner and more comfy to drive.
by BavarianMS | June 28, 2008 8:44 PM
if thats what you're looking for. good post btw. Thats what it is, it all depends what you're looking for. Lets say you're looking for an affordable supercar but need something thats drive-able everyday and comfortable; then the GT-R is perfect. If someone is looking for a real drivers car, a car that has few electronic aids such as TCS, ABS, a beastly kind of car, that will give you an intense thrill physically and mentally then the ZR1 is for you, if you have the quid. It all comes down to what you need/want in a car.
by Xanavi23 | June 28, 2008 9:07 PM
exactly, sterile all wheel drive with DSG trasnmission is for muppets who ain`t got no driving skills. i would never trade rear wheel drive on a race track. nothing beats a rear wheel drive car when it comes to fun.
by catchmyshadow | June 28, 2008 11:11 PM
except intelligent AWD...
by benz_man | July 7, 2008 12:00 PM
Nitrous, are you on the pipe? Nissan has been copying Audi and other Euro makers for years. (first 350z lines looking like the orig TT a coincidence?)It's what they do...take other's technology and design, mix well and put their badge on it. This can't be the first you've heard of this phenom!
by RSer | June 28, 2008 9:08 PM
FYI the 350z didn't take any thing from anyone. It was designed by design engineers in california.
by pzigly | June 29, 2008 12:14 AM
Where the designers of the Nissan were sitting has zero relevence. All they did was see a TT and start to put a Nissan slant to it. Put a profile of the 2000 TT next to a profile of the 2003 350z and tell me they thought of that style while California dreaming. The Japanese blatantly duplicated popular styles and reverse-engineered products from around the world for decades, made them cheaper and even sometimes better. And not just with cars. There is no point in denying it. If you think Japan is higher tech then Germany, think again. Many innovations of the modern world came from Germany (ie. Karl Benz invented the first gas powered car). And America has invented countless thousands of everyday modern devices that the Japanese just copy, refine and put their brand on. But they lack innovation and inventive thinking. Superior German engineering is world renowned while Japanese engineering is not. Japanese engineering equates to design copying. Japanese cars may be more reliable than the new German cars but that is because they are less refined and have far less sophisticated 4-cylinder engines. And why for the most part are they less expensive? Because there is practically no cost for research, design and developement! Not unlike what the Chinese are attempting right now in their breakout automotive copy-cat design schools.
by RSer | June 29, 2008 2:26 AM
You actually had me doubting my self for a sec.. The TT looks nothing like the Z. Are you on the pipe? The only thing in common it that they are 2 door and have 2 seats. I looked at pics of both and the Z looks nothing like it. The TT looks ugly and the Z nice.
by pzigly | June 29, 2008 3:35 AM
OK, obviously we will never know what the designers drew from, and who can account for taste. But ugly? I didn't see the Z get a place in the Guggenheim Museum of Mod Art. The TT did.
by RSer | June 30, 2008 9:59 AM
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I hate how the TT looks, but the Z has a powerfull stance and the lights mold with the car. The convertable TT looks like a twinkie with 2 roll bars coming out of it.
by pzigly | June 30, 2008 12:39 PM
All this arguing is kinda pointless. It's a great job by GM. Logic says that they won't stay atop the heap for long though. 7:26 is the Generals time for the finished product, while the GT-R V-Spec has already clocked a 7:25 early in development, and the Lexus LF-A prototype has thrown down an even more impressive 7:24. The head honchos over at Honda have already mandated GT-R beating performance for the next NSX, so that should see the 7:20s as well with it's rumored 600hp V10 and SH-AWD system. Porsche has now introduced it's PDK tranny and direct injection to the 911 mix, Audi is coming out with the V10 R8... in short, it's a great time to be a car enthusiast. We should be rejoicing instead of arguing. Does it really matter who's fastest on the 'Ring?
by jamaicandude | June 28, 2008 9:21 PM
The Motor Trend did a test with a GT-R on dinamometro, and had concluded the following: Let's concede to the myth and magic of Godzilla that maybe Nissan's wizards have miraculously managed to constrain drivetrain losses to 15 percent and takes the factory's engine-dyno rpm-derived peaks are accurate. That brings our hyper-conservative estimate in at: 507 hp at 6800 rpm and 500 pound-feet at 3200 rpm at least.
Well, if it's 480 as claimed, the power lost to heat and friction in the drivetrain amounts to just 10.3 percent. "No way," says K & N's James Yim, who reckons the bare minimum lost to all the friction and gears in this rear-transaxle all-wheel-drive twin-clutch manual (a radiator about the size of an intercooler is dedicated to cooling the transaxle) is 15 percent. He'd bet it's more like 20 or 25 percent - especially considering that during such a dyno pull, the ATESSA ET-S AWD system has to route nearly 50 percent of the torque to the front axle to spin that huge front roller on its own (which it will not do during the dry-road acceleration run). Consider too that, although these figures are corrected to all weather conditions SAE standard, the conversion does not take into account the loss of intercooler efficiency in 93-degree weather. Given those three drivetrain-loss guesstimates, here's how the crank output looks: Weather corrected Crankshaft horsepower dyno figures assuming 15% loss 20% loss 25% loss Horsepower 430.6 506.6 538.3 574.1 Torque 425.3 500.4 531.6 567.1
So he just has this performance "absurd" because it is much more powerful than the Nissan really declara.Might all the engineering mules, Japanese test-market cars, and even this early-build press car overboost be running or some other tweaks that saleable customer cars will not get in order to fan the hysteria surrounding this car? It would be trivially easy to do, but devastating to the car's credibility, so we seriously doubt it. It's far more likely the Japanese are simply continuing an underreporting tradition born during the era of ridiculous that voluntary 280-horsepower cap. And it's certainly a white lie we can learn to love. Porsche's are much better. Congratulations to the ZR-1!
by Prs5150 | June 28, 2008 9:42 PM
I agree with, jamaicandude, these are both great cars. the Zr1 will be beatin soon but its great to see manufactures coming out with their best and taking it to the next level every time. it really is exciting. and its great to see it happen in different ways, push rod high litre v8, high tech v6, all wheel drive dual clutch, rear wheel manual. I personally can wait to what Porsche does with the next line up of the turbo and gt2.
and to comment on Xanavi23's last comment its true look what cheve said; "The truth is, if the only priority was speed at the ring, the car would not be very pleasant to drive on American roads. The ZR1 is an incredibly capable track machine, but unlike most ultra-high performance cars, it is very easy to live with on a daily basis."
by jslcarfan | June 28, 2008 9:47 PM
normal gtr 60k beats 60k normal corvette vspec gtr 100k beats zo6 100k corvettee
vspec beats normal vete z06 beats normal gtr
not a science
by demstel | June 28, 2008 9:55 PM
sorry i had horrible grammar in my last post. it should say. . . i personally can't wait to see what porsche . . .
by jslcarfan | June 28, 2008 9:56 PM
1990 Corvettes might not have had too much horsepower but for the time it wasnt too bad and the suspension and brakes were no-$#!t parts. Check anywhere you want...the 1990 Corvettes set a benchmark in handling, especially for the corvette series. It gave the Corvette handling only offered by european counterparts at the time. The C4 Corvette bears no shame.
by Xanavi23 | June 29, 2008 1:39 AM
If you want style and like showing off then get a italian supercar. If you want crazy hardcore smashing, then you want a vette. If you want a car with persision, consistancy, some style, can get you from point a to point b everyday (even in the snow), and still able to embarrass the style or crazy guy then get a gtr.
by pzigly | June 29, 2008 12:36 AM
and they all go *woof woof* but for the few who don't hate for the sake of hating
by PotatoEater | June 29, 2008 2:14 AM
Besides, 6.2L vs 3.8L - how is this even a comparison? You'd expect a bigger victory than a seeming trouncing by a nose.
by PotatoEater | June 29, 2008 2:18 AM
Exactly!!!!! the zr1 has 168hp more than the GTR and weighs 500 pounds less than the GTR. To beat it by only 3 seconds on a 10 mile track should be embarrassing!!!!!!
by pzigly | June 29, 2008 2:25 AM
Can anyone say "AWD & twin turbos"?
by benz_man | July 7, 2008 12:08 PM
This is for RSer, Do you know anything about nissans heritage of racing??? Datsun/nissan have been racing cars since 1936 and have been very successful for 70 years on the track and on the road, Have a look back to the earlier fairlady and 300z have always had a sloped back the 1990 300zx had a sloped back the recent 300z is just a updated version of its earlier models to say they copied the TT well that's your own opinion. if you look closely just about every car company will copy something that is good and refine it, sure the japs might of copied the German and American products in some sense but that isn't the case these days, Japan has heaps of technology of their own they are even in development of FUSON power!!!!, nissan is renowned for their 4 cylinder engines and the rb series 6 cly was bullet proof, I think your living in the past, the best way for human to progress is to learn what there is to know and then go from there anybody will take a good product and try and make it better than it already is, Give the poor japs a bit of credit they are doing very well...
by mortz | June 29, 2008 3:17 AM
I will add only this... I owned the first 240z model (S30)and some since. I owned the 8th TT delivered to the US in mid '99. At that time (and I challange a challange), nothing else on the market had lines like those designed by Freeman Thomas (also in CA, LOL) for the TT concept. I then watched the new Z style arrive a couple of years later and was almost embarrassed for Nissan at their TT on steriods body design. I am not saying the Japanese don't make good products, of course they do...they just don't waste much time with an original thought. Other than robotics mind you!
by RSer | June 29, 2008 4:53 AM
I don't understand why so many people on this site hate on the Vette. Anybody who says that a time of 7:26 should be embarrassing is just a moron. If some european car put up those numbers you'll would be all over its nuts. The postings on this site are always so ridiculous. If your to proud or ignorant or whatever it is to give the Vette credit where it clearly deserves it than I sorry your so unwilling to see when there is a great car because you're so blinded by stereotypes. Get a life. The only thing that keeps me calm from the ignorance of most of this sites postings is that the vast majority that post here will never be able to buy a car like this. But still how about you give credit where its do.
by gmfan09 | June 29, 2008 3:51 AM
I did give chevy credit up there. It is a good car. I was just replying to the comment that the gtr is not that special because a vette got 7:26. I have driven many american cars. The only ones that I like are the new ones. The olser ones felt like crap and were not reliable. I dont follow sterotypes. I go with the car that has proven it self. Also I have started to save up for the GTR and I have even been in one and seen it 2 other times. I see many people trashing the gtr just because a car that is 30k more, 500pounds less and 168hp more got 3 sec faster on a 10 mile track. I dont have anything against the vette it is a good car but I dont feel that they have the percision of the GTR. It is a big leap for chevy though but not as good yet.....
by pzigly | June 29, 2008 4:10 AM
Sweet so that makes like one of thirty of the people on this site that aren't biased.
by gmfan09 | June 29, 2008 4:25 AM
haha thanks
by pzigly | June 29, 2008 4:50 AM
It started from the trash talk at the beginning where comments where made that the gtr is jap crap, people with common sense will realize that both cars are wonderful to the people they are marketed for, Every performance Car is made from the passion of their creators designers and engineers, the nurburgring is really for them to make progress with there developments, how often do you hear car companies trash talking each others car just because they are from a different country!!!!!
by mortz | June 29, 2008 8:18 AM
ha the long and the short of it all is that its down to what appeals to whom. if high-strung techno-japanese with great lap times and driveability if your thing, then enjoy it. if a thumping great v8 cruiser is your thing, then enjoy it. if the all-rounder germanics are your thing enjoy them, and if the passion of the italian cars is what makes you tick then enjoy it. its purely opinionated; there is no point arguing.
by Lucifa | June 30, 2008 12:47 PM
To all of the Corvette haters,
You all scoff at the 7:26 as unimpressive. Keep these facts in mind: The Corvette ZR1 was driven by by GM development engineer Jim Mero and not a American Le Mans series driver. After the run, he commented that he thought he could shaved a couple tics off that mark. The 7:26 time may only be the tip of the iceberg. How much time do you think that a professional driver will be able to shave off Jim Mero's already impressive mark?
by marcdevon | June 29, 2008 4:48 AM
First off those drivers are not any kind of drivers. They are good!!!! Second of all the driver of nissan wasnt lemans either he was a nissan driver. And third of all everyone says that they can do better if they just tried a little bit more on that track espically, but that track is soooo hard they dont push as hard as they can so they dont die. It is easy to make a mistake on that track.
by pzigly | June 29, 2008 4:57 AM
Notice that I did not say anything about Nissan. I only stated that the ZR1 may be able to achieve a better time. Chill out fanboy.
by marcdevon | June 29, 2008 5:30 AM
lol the article is about how the gtr being beaten and you said that the car wasnt driven by a lemans driver. I was just stating that the GTR wasnt either to make testing even. Also I was telling you that everyone says they could have gotten a better time but they didnt so they would be able to live.
by pzigly | June 29, 2008 5:52 AM
Sorry RSer but there's a slight similarity but to say that Nissan copied Audi's design of the tt that's a load of garbage, the 300z looks much nicer to my eye....
by mortz | June 29, 2008 6:44 AM
i love how up there everyone is talking about how porsche has so much more soul and passion than nissan and how good its heritage is and all that.... how do you even figure that one out? is there a measure for soul and passion? does porsche have more soul than nissan cause they make sports cars? how do u measure that? as for racing heritage i mean yes both companies have good and bad points in their bloodline so i cant see how you compare and measure that either.
by skychao | June 29, 2008 8:12 AM
Yea that's right skychao that's what i was trying to get across.....
by mortz | June 29, 2008 8:23 AM
if anything I feel nissan has more soal because its the underdog
by pzigly | June 29, 2008 8:34 AM
you cannot quantify soul. there's no way of determining which car has more soul than another scientifically. its just a feeling, a vibe if you will, and to most of us the uber-techno-freak japanese road racers have none of it. sorry...
by Lucifa | June 30, 2008 12:42 PM
check out datsunhistory.com its a realy good insight into the history of nissan racing
by mortz | June 29, 2008 8:41 AM
The ZR-1 will certainly deserves all the credit, and I also do not understand why everyone hates him. Forget the GT-R, it is a "lie", much more powerful than the Nissan actually says (at least 550 hp), which fits into a higher category, beyond that Nissan has to thank the 996 Turbo and the 997 Turbo that were the basis for the development of its Godzila. It is a great car? Yes, but we still have much to gain him his space between the myths! If I like the copies? No, prefer the originals!
by Prs5150 | June 29, 2008 2:00 PM
The gtr v-spec will have the 550hp but the standard gtr dynos around 470hp
by mortz | June 30, 2008 6:44 AM
wow! i am literally amazed with the passion that people have for the gtr and the zr1. Both cars are truly amazing in terms of power however i do think gtr is technically more advance and produces its power from a v6 configuration!! I also remember the fact that aftermarket parts can be obtained for the r34 which would allow it to produce over 1000bhp reliably, so imagine the possibilities for the new gtr. Don't forget about the amazing four wheel drive system which will be able to put all that power down, imagine the possibilities Veyron beating power for the masses.
by aston | June 29, 2008 2:51 PM
Both the GT-R and ZR1 beat the Pagani Zonda F's time on the ring, but most of us here would all agree that the Pagani's the fastest of the three. All three cars have crazy ring times attained by different approaches in engineering and I don't feel that it is a fair comparison saying that one is better than the other, although in terms of price and precision in engineering, the GT-R would top the others.
by RS5 | June 29, 2008 3:19 PM
RS5, only the ZR-1 beat the Pagani Zonda F, The GT-R or not beat the Zonda and neither the Carrera GT. And to speak the truth, the best really is the Carrera GT that apart from not using an engine borrowed from Mercedes and not be a clone of such a 911 Turbo, and only have traction control as guardian angel (not to mention that he is heavier and less powerful that the Zonda F) can ring in a time of 7:28! Not to mention the 997 GT2 that even with the engine in the wrong place, only 530cv and traction only on the rear wheels to the optimum time of 7:31! Performance similar to the Carrera GT. And in my opinion, the mechanical setup of the car, he has a performance better than the ZR-1, GT (911 Turbo)-R, Zonda (Mercedes) F, and even that the Carrera GT.
by Prs5150 | June 29, 2008 3:53 PM
The gtr r32, r33 and r34 used a in-line 6 cly 2.6ltr twin turbo with nissans atessa awd and 4 wheel hicas steering, with the engine in the FRONT, the gtr r35 uses a 3.8ltr v6 with an updated atessa et-s awd system without the 4 wheel steering and transmission sits on the rear wheels with two drive shafts one from the engine to the transmission and then another to the front wheels, the gtrs only use the front wheels to power when they are needed, and the cylinder bores are even coated in plasma. I cant say ive ever seen a nissan gtr with a flat 6 engine in the rear!!!! Anyone else??
by mortz | June 30, 2008 8:21 AM
The Zonda (Mercedes) to which I am referring, is the F (Mercedes) Clubsport, which marked the time of 7:27.8 in the ring. The time of Zonda (Mercedes) F common is 7:33. That is worse than the 997 GT2, the GT (911 Turbo)-R, the Carrera GT, the very Zonda F (Mercedes) Clubsport and the ZR-1. I have said enough.
by Prs5150 | June 29, 2008 4:18 PM
There is nothing wrong with some one making a engine for a small company. When you are a small company trying to make it in this very competitive car game you cant spend millions of dollars creating an engine from scratch. That would take years and frustrated investors want to see results. In time zonda will start making engines. In the begining they too the 7.3L v12 and didnt modify much, but now that engine has been reworked by zonda to get 200-300 more hp out of it naturally!!!! Some of the greatest cars in the world have engines that were produced by other companies. koenigsegg has a ford v8. mclaren f1 had a bmw v12. the list goes on. When you have a formula to create one of the greatest cars in the world, you cant stop make something that will take years to develope or else someone will beat you too it. your investors will not be happy either.
by pzigly | June 29, 2008 11:12 PM
Pre5150 i was clearing stating my opinion, you didn't have to get get all defensive about it like a big cry baby, and for your information I've been a huge fan of the skyline before they even brought out the r32 gtr i never stated i knew everything like you think you do, Ive studied what is available on the gtr, maybe you should take your arrogant attitude and get it adjusted. Maybe if you read my other post then youd understand where i was comming from!!!!
by mortz | July 1, 2008 2:00 AM
The corvette is also capable of a lot of aftermarket hp to. Just look at the 1300hp lingenfelter which if run on race gas and set to 28psi of boost is capable of 1518hp with 1400ftlbs of torque. Even more amazing things can come out of a car that has a 7liter v8 versus the gtr's smaller v6
by Joe_Limon | June 29, 2008 7:58 PM
i wud rather be seen in a zonda. tats one desirable machine
by michelin901 | June 29, 2008 8:21 PM
Where do you get that the Corvette has crappy handling? Just more ignorance from a poster on this site. Does that fact that the ZR1 is so fast offend you or something?
by gmfan09 | June 30, 2008 1:49 AM
the GT-R is just the GT-R, the Zr1 is a modified corvette... ofcourse its gonna beat it... just wait to see what the spec v is gonna do... then talk about it...
by fshizl | June 30, 2008 12:56 AM
WOW timdog595 I'm dumb-founded. . . that was the smartest thing said about this article. . .theres a difference between base and stock. when the gtr-v spec comes out it will be stock but not the base model same thing with the zr1, stock, but definitely not the base model
by jslcarfan | June 30, 2008 1:51 AM
With such a congregation of armchair experts, you'd think this was a university.
by PotatoEater | June 30, 2008 2:38 AM
haha
by gmfan09 | June 30, 2008 2:40 AM
You my friend....have just made comment of the week.
by Xanavi23 | June 30, 2008 2:55 AM
ha touche, sir.
by Lucifa | June 30, 2008 12:40 PM
nobody hates vette, alot of americans hate GT-R because they affraid vette, which is only one american car industries icon would be brought down by GT-R, i love new vette exterior but interior is still kinda cheap and boring designed...
by andy | June 30, 2008 5:05 AM
drove a c6 vert interior is pos engine is very nice spins in third in the try now thats fun ooh the g meter is a option not all vetts have em
by audidood | June 30, 2008 6:38 AM
When it all boils down to it, it's a matter of personal preference, all these cars are great it just which one does it for you, and truth be told none of us will ever go to "The Ring" to put these cars through their paces, so leave that to the professionals. I'm just a car fan period regardless of where it comes from, congrats to ALL automakers!!!!
by biglac22 | June 30, 2008 7:55 AM
The best post yet!
by gmfan09 | June 30, 2008 8:43 AM
Sucks to be a passive car fan. This thread is so awesome because there is so much passion from both sides.
by Lpau | June 30, 2008 2:37 PM
You guys are forgetting that the GT-R is a newly engineered car whereas the current 'Vette is in the upper half of its lifetime (which is supposed to be 5 years, from 2005 to 2010). Yes, the GT-R may be a better machine overall, but that's just reasonable since it's a more recent machine. We'll see how the C7 does compared to the GT-R. I think it'll be a fairer comparison.
Right now, well, congratulations Chevy. You chose your own methods, and you proved that you can still battle.