Volkswagen and Proton talks collapse
Volkswagen Ends Talks with Proton
Proton shares take plunge
Filed Under: Corporate/Financial Volkswagen Proton
Proton shares take plunge
Volkswagen has been having talks with the Malaysian government since 2004 about an alliance between Europe's largest car manufacturer and the state run Proton brand, resulting in the occasional news snippets. But two days ago talks once again collapsed, leaving the flailing Malaysian car manufacturer without the needed financial backing and Volkswagen without an ASEAN market stepping stone.
Volkswagen will still enter the ASEAN market in due time on its own accord and establish its own chain of suppliers and dealerships. But for Proton the collapse of the negotiations have more dire results, Automotive News reports today that Proton shares have dropped by 12% to a seven-year low.
Proton has recently launched the new Proton Persona and was hoping to piggy back on VW like Skoda did, once the butt of most car jokes and now selling over 600,000 cars and aiming to hit the 1 million in 2010.
Source: Volkswagen Group and Automotive news (sub req)
Michael
November 21, 2007 3:56:20 PM
Overrated? Hmm... Last year Volkswagen Group was the fourth world auto manufacturer, behind GM, Toyota and Ford. But now Ford having financial difficulties and trying to get rid of Jag and Landrover, VW could take its place and become very soon the third world largest manufacturer.
PhaetonMan
November 27, 2007 11:57:13 AM
Give me a break. The Phaeton lost in the US because the Audi A8 got more noteriety. I compared the two side by side as well as all other luxury autos including MB, BMW, Lexus, and Cadillac and quite frankly, NOTHING came close to the ride comfort, features, and quality of such a finely built automobile. VW also owns Audi, Bently, Lamborgini as well as others with a major share holder with Porsche. I will put ANY of those cars against your lame duck Malaysian joke of a car.
bristol411s3
November 21, 2007 3:47:47 PM
That's the point though, they seemingly can't, otherwise they would have done so by now. proton could end up being the MG Rover of SE Asia unless they find a partner soon.
asif
November 21, 2007 4:24:11 PM
exactly you said it. vw GROUP. thats taking all the brands togather to make it the 4th largest. like to see their sales without the audi and seat and who knows what other brands they own. plus all vw owned brands suffer from the same problem as vw and that is all seats look the same as do all audis just like (you guessed it!) vws!!!
PagodaWarrior
November 21, 2007 4:30:41 PM
VW is doing something right... otherwise they wouldn't be 4th and soon 3rd in the world.
Michael
November 21, 2007 5:04:13 PM
All of them are "gropus" (GM, Toyota, Ford etc.), not only VW. GM was first counting 12 divisions/subsidiaries, Toyota second with 5 divisions/subsidiaries, Ford third with 7 divisions/subsidiaries (out of which 2 are for sale) and VW fourth with 7 subsidiaries...
drag
November 21, 2007 6:02:25 PM
vw GROUP... GM is chevy, gmc, pontiac, saturn and more... Ford is Ford Lincoln Mercury and more... Toyota scion lexus... uh think smarter maybe??
aesthetics
November 23, 2007 8:32:35 AM
hehe not so sharp. vag bought these ailling companies, what are you talking about. without vag its goodbye for them, like what most likely happen to proton, bye! bye! its very clever for vag to keep these brands alive and not play god by using only german names. its a win win situation, again, very clever.
hondaboy22
November 21, 2007 5:00:32 PM
Bentley was drying up and losing money like hell. They turned to VW for a fix and then sold themselves to the Germans to stay afloat. They surrendered their independence to Volkswagen and now volkswagen owns the former british company. No one owns the German companies. VW is an empire of auto manufacturers. Is there anyone else that owns more car companies?
BENZian
November 21, 2007 6:30:17 PM
honda boy is right. Bentley & Rolls Royce were both on the edge of bankruptcy. They did not have the money for R & D or to even modernize their manufacturing facilities or to upgrade their road cars. The only thing that kept them afloat at all was the faded memory of their glory days. Their cars were stately and beautiful to look at but the technology was from the 60s & 70s and they were extremely unreliable. BMW & VW wanted the prestigious Bentley or Rolls Royce brands in order to compete with Mercedes Benz in the ultra luxury segment. The reason both marques are around today is due to the technological prowess and deep pockets of their german owners...consequently this is also the reason that Daimler resurrected the Maybach marque in order to produce a product to compete directly with the revived Bentley & Rolls Royce...
MBAMG
November 21, 2007 10:32:42 PM
what do you mean former British. Its still british. thats like saying Aston Martin was American when it was owned by Ford. And Bentley didn't "sell themselves" to VW.
Badass_Benny
November 21, 2007 5:58:53 PM
asif is quite ignorant. The fact of the matter is that component sharing is essential to reduce development and production costs, and also improve quality. And the faliure of the Phaeton(mainly in North America;it's still sold in Europe) is due to bad marketing. But don't forget, it was co-developed with the Bentley Continental GT, which is selling like hotcakes. So, to the degree that the Conti GT is raking in the cash for VW, credit must go to the Phaeton/Conti project. Termially dull? No, that award goes to Toyota. Must I mention the GTI/R32, TT-s and RS4/5, Gallardo, R8, KTM X-Bow, Spyker, etc. No, VW is one of the rare companies who knows drivers want their cake, and to eat it too: practicality, as well as sportiness, style, great ergonomics, and good value.
BENZian
November 21, 2007 6:17:07 PM
...while I agree with the majority of what Benny had to say.... The Phaeton was not jointly developed with the Bently Continental GT...it was built off the Audi A8 platform...and its redundancy was immediately apparent... I can see reason to buy an Audi A8 with a W12 but I can't see any reason for buying a $100,000.00 VW. VW & Benz both suffered from the out-of-control egos of their former chairmen...thats the ugly truth.
bristol411s3
November 22, 2007 2:00:56 AM
I don't believe that is true BENZian. The Phaeton and Contintental share a common floorplan and engine components. I don't believe it is tne undrepinnings from the A8, which is the the Audi ASF aluminium spaceframe if you recall - steel underpins the VW and Bentley.
BENZian
November 22, 2007 2:20:00 AM
...I might have to give that one to you...but what I am sure of is that the Phaeton competes directly with the Audi A8 W12 and that was a foolish mistake on VWs part...would you seriously buy a $100,000.00 VW luxobarge ? And even in Europe the car is not moving very well.
JayBono17
November 22, 2007 2:38:17 AM
... doesnt VW own bentley lamborghini and porsche? and not to mention bugatti? they are all part of the VW group and they certainly dont look the same. and if 'asif' has something against the company because of their cars seats... WTF? and the only cars on the market that remotly have any similarity to VW's is skoda. and thats not even the new VW's, its the old things like the bora, and the passat.
hondaboy22
November 22, 2007 3:04:53 AM
Even the British guy on top gear admitted he would rather have a pheaton than the big jaguar. In North America everything is about show and not worrying about if its who you really are. People just can't see why they would pay 100k for somehting with a VW badge. In reality it is indeed a super car which is better than any american luxury car ever made, and probably won alot of audi guys over.
radmeister
November 22, 2007 5:57:23 AM
The phaeton new audi A8 and Continental Flying Spur were built on the same design concept by the same engineers/designers. The audi A8-L W12 and the Flying Spur have the exact same interior. As for buying a phaeton why wouldnt u? If you dont need quattro and 1 of the fanciest interiors in the lux sedan market but u still want a luxury sedan with a great w12 engine u get the Phaeton for 80,000$ less than the A8 equiv. And yes don't kid urselves for all the american fanboys the A8-L even in TDI is better than ne caddy. Just the Bang & Olufsen sound system says it all. Quality. Ne1 buying a 2008 audi i highly recommend getting the Bang & Olufsen sounds system, it will literaly blow you away.
MBAMG
November 23, 2007 1:41:56 AM
No you idiot, they have completely different interiors especially the dash(the flying spur and A8). Just shut up if you have no idea what you're talking about. And the Phaeton w12 is no way 80,000 cheaper than the A8 W12. Its more lik 20,000. Anyway they stopped selling the phaeton in the US because it was such a failure compared to MBs and BMWs.
DonK
November 22, 2007 3:04:49 PM
To JayBono: VW Dont own Porsche - its the other way around! Porche is trying to buy enough shares in VW so they would have the controlling majority.
radmeister
November 23, 2007 5:11:24 AM
MBAMG wow dash, seats, speakers, center rear console, roof. i think you are the 1 that doesnt know what he is talking about. go and look at some photos of an A8-L(long wheelbase) W12 and then of flying spur and u will see. They even have the exact same 4 seat rear option with fridge between the seats. The price difference isnt even big, a fully loaded A8-L W12 will set you back 215,000$. the flying spur is under 300,000$
aesthetics
November 23, 2007 8:27:24 AM
its amazing how such a company with so much government tax assitance and support could end up losing so much money. must be run by monkeys. if you cannot survive you die, simple. whats even worse vag has announce they are still going ahead with their south east asian plan which means proton has a new competitor, one that has successfully penetrated china. and who will be offering their serivces to vag? thailand of course so this is a massive dent to the malaysian economy as more thais would be sent for skilled training with vag money selling cars in malaysia LOL! stupidity beyond belief
aesthetics
November 23, 2007 8:36:26 AM
i's love to see proton die. it is a company that only thinks of profits with their ultra cheap cars. look how they prostitute the lotus name by badging colin chapmans greatness on awful cars. proton make cars that could compare themselves with public transportation lol and not cars alike.
Voldar
November 26, 2007 2:19:45 AM
asethetics has a fantastic point...Proton is just garbage. I think asif is either stuck driving a Proton or is Malaysian...either way, probably one of the more ignorant people I have ever come across
frankly who cares. proton should count themselves lucky. who wants to be owned by the most terminally dullest auto maker as well as the most overated auto producer on planet earth? vw phaeton anyone? thought not. proton can do som much better.....