Mazda and Audi considering rotary engine partnership - report

Mazda Shinari Concept, 07.09.2010

Engine could be used in production A1 e-tron

The last partnership between Germany and Japan didn't end well, but a new report is indicating that Audi and Mazda are considering a Wankel engine alliance.

Inside Line says the two companies have had informal talks to explore the possibility of joining forces to develop rotary engines. While it may seem odd that Audi would be interested, the A1 e-tron features a 20 PS (15 kW / 20 hp) range-extending Wankel engine.

In related news, Mazda has reportedly developed a new laser ignition system for rotary engines. Details are limited, but the system eliminates the need for spark plugs and allows for better engine sealing as well as reduced CO2 emissions. The engine would likely debut in the successor to the RX-8, but a source indicated that a launch hasn't been green-lighted and the company is seeking funding.

Source: InsideLine

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Comments (18)

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vilivo

Or an A1RS, with the next-gen RX-engine...

June 10, 2011 1:26 pm

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EMBJATI85

does this mean vw will buy mazda

June 10, 2011 1:56 pm

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9TNine

oh dear. Guess the rotary engine in the A1 e-tron doesn't work that well, huhhh? Bummer!

June 10, 2011 2:20 pm

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droid_dtm

not sure what Audi can offer to the alliance. Sure NSU, from which Audi came, was the first to develop the rotary engine, but having abandoned the idea, Mazda has been the only company building and advancing rotaries.

June 10, 2011 3:24 pm

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6 replies

radmeister

R&D facilities, machine shops, audi has a lot to offer to Mazda, lets face it mazda makes a pretty shitty rotary engine, just because they are the only ones on the market doesn't make them any good.

June 10, 2011 6:15 pm

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/\ YOU have no Idea what you are talking about...IF anything Mazda would be the ones to offer AUDI tech and manufacturing knowledge with the Rotary, NOT the other way around.

June 10, 2011 6:38 pm

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sideskraper

Pooling resources and finances means significant savings afforded to engineering, manufacturing, and budgets of each partner. They also allow the use of each others intellectual property when a straight licensing agreement isn't on the cards. In short it's a win win situation. There are still issues with the engines that prevent their wider deployment. Don't forget Audi have a lot of engine technology in their portfolio, not the least their turbo direct injection IP.

June 10, 2011 8:44 pm

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DdW

Sideskraper, you are right. In fact, I liked such a partnership to be develop as it will bring more hope to produce future Wankel engine variants and related technology. Not only that, it should be interesting to note how Audi and Mazda could share R&D synergies that could yield better and more attractive products.

June 10, 2011 9:55 pm

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scratchy996

just to be clear , Wankel engines are great , but not meant to power cars directly. Audi wants to use them as generators for their serial hybrid cars, like the Volt and Karma engines. Rotaries have a great potential in this form.

June 11, 2011 2:01 am

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9TNine

+1 (to Droid_Dtm)

June 11, 2011 3:13 am

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Broseph Stalin

That's funny because Audi derived from NSU the creators of the rotary engine.

June 10, 2011 5:06 pm

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1 reply

9TNine

That they did. And my friend's father had an NSU R080. Alas their rotary engine bankrupted NSU. It was subsequently taken over by the VW group. The problem with the NSU rotary engine was that it kept failing. Customers would go back for a new engine maybe 2-3 times or more in the cars life and NSU complied. This then caused the collapse of NSU. Mazda continued with the rotary engine and seemed to succeed where NSU failed. Bit like the high speed tilting train. Originated by the Brits but Fiat (yep they make more than cars) got it to work!

June 11, 2011 2:54 am

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9TNine

There is a danger here of "knowledge stripping" (a bit like asset stripping). I'm afraid German car companies, so far, do not have a very good "marriage" relationship reputation with other car companies. Take Mercedes Benz and Chrysler (lucky Fiat picked up the pieces) Also BMW and the Rover group. Personally I think a better marriage would be between Nissan and Mazda. Nissan with their decade old + battery technologoy and Mazda with their rotary engine knowhow.

June 11, 2011 3:11 am

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1 reply

sideskraper

The mechanism of asset stripping is incompatible with an analogous process of "knowledge stripping" with this arrangement. Intellectual property laws are also clear and tested internationally. They're not idiots who will give away key technology.

June 12, 2011 4:20 am

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CReeds

Obviously these two great companies see the relationship as being mutually beneficial. I find the "related news" tidbit regarding laser ignition system development to be the more interesting part of the article. Is there more on this WCF?

June 11, 2011 6:33 am

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mazdaguy42

The rotary engine has such great potential if it could get a money injection that the relatively small Mazda Corp can't come up with. As long as some of that poor German reliability and over engineering doesn't make its way into Mazda's product line.

June 11, 2011 7:44 am

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1 reply

mb74

Sounding a bit desperate for Audi to help Mazda there... Audi just won Le Mans 24hour ya know? Don't get me wrong, we all like Wankel engines. I reckon most of us would buy an RX8 or any other RX if they could produce more than ONE every 8 years, time flies...

June 13, 2011 1:15 am

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siu16

Think Audi shot themselves in the foot with their 'Trademark' grill. It was supposed to be so everyone would recognize the 'Face' instantly as an Audi but it seems every other car manufacturer has also copied the grill easily.

June 13, 2011 4:49 am

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