An automatic-only BMW M5?

2012 BMW M5 spied in blue 16.02.2011 / Copyright SB-Medien

BMW engineers have run into trouble fitted the M DCT transmission to the F10 M5, according to a report

BMW may be left no choice but to offer the upcoming 2012 M5 solely with an automatic transmission.

According to a report by Motor Trend, BMW engineers ran into trouble fitting the M Dual Clutch Transmission (M DCT) to the F10 M5. Apparently, the torque is too much for the M DCT to handle with the 4.4 liter twin-turbo V8 dialed up to around the 550 horsepower (410 kW / 558 PS) mark. The configuration's torque rating remains unknown.

M division engineers considered adding larger actuators to the M DCT but that would slow the gearbox's response time. Only a complete revision of the M DCT would do and that appears to be too big a challenge, in terms of work required and costs, for BMW.

So, the only alternative left is to fit the F10 M5 with the ZF 8-speed automatic (sequential with paddle-shifters) gearbox and leave the M5 as an automatic-only just like the X5 M and X6 M models. Of course, the M5 is in a class of its own being one of the core M division models.

It will definitely pain M enthusiasts to know that there will be no proper manual gearbox available.

Source: Motor Trend

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B_M_Gearhead

Put a Tremec TR6060 from the ZR1 in there, it can handle whatever you want to throw at it. Heck even an old T56 from a 01 Camaro could handle the torque a 4.4L could put out. I have seen LS1's modified to over 1200lbft driven everyday on the stock trans. C-mon BMW you can do better than, "We have no choice, we ran into trouble, our transmission is weak trash!" Put some "Think" into it and figure it out, your mom is not here to hold your hand, nut up or shut up!

February 16, 2011 3:30 pm

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3 replies

Sacto8780

While it could be done, potential size issues with the Tremec TR6060 and the need to engineer specifically for the M5 could make it just as expensive to use on the car as a redesigned DCT. Or BMW could license Porsche's PDK box from the Panamera, but wouldn't that add around US$5,000 to the cost of the car? Besides, the ZF 8HP (already planned for the 760iL sedan) is not a slouch automatic for the M5 if properly engineered with the right gearing and stronger torque converter plates. After all, if ZF can build an automatic for the Bentley Continental Flying Spur that can go 200 mph, they certainly can do an 8AT for the M5 that will have very fast changes between gears and still withstand the torque of the 4.4-liter biturbo V-8.

February 16, 2011 7:30 pm

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joshg_5

Sacto, I think you're missing the point. I for one, along with most other manual enthusiasts, enjoy the mechanics and involvement associated with a stick. I could honestly care less if there's some fancy automatic that can shift a fraction of a second faster than I can with three pedals... And I don't believe that cost or resources is a viable excuse for this. Along with this "all-new, redesigned" 5-series, they should have developed a transmission that worked. Lazy...

February 16, 2011 9:24 pm

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scratchy996

Porsche also has some pretty strong manual boxes.

February 16, 2011 11:58 pm

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Pagani

Or, have BMW ask Mercedes kindly to license them their MCT, which can handle the M5's torque, and can actually do better: it can handle even AMG CLS's torque. :)

February 16, 2011 3:48 pm

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dbehmoaras

BMW is making a serious mistake.

February 16, 2011 4:25 pm

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Edison

If there is neither a manual option nor a DCT option, this may go down in history as the worst M5 ever. Yeah it may have great power, but what good is it when the transmission cannot shift quick enough or you don't offer the fun of shifting your own gears? Wow, is Mercedes supplanting BMW as the luxury sport brand? Witness the new CLS AMG. Pretty incredible.

February 16, 2011 4:45 pm

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carbonblack

HERESY!!!

February 16, 2011 5:57 pm

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Hellbound

Can someone please point me to an article that says there'll be no manual box? All I keep reading is problems regarding the different types of auto/semi/tiptronic box. In the grand scheme of things, I'd rather BMW made an auto M5 than no M5 at all.

February 16, 2011 7:45 pm

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joshg_5

I don't believe it. Literally, I don't believe it. BMW knows their enthusiast customer base would not approve, and they can't risk lost sales -and legacy- for their flagship M model. BMW is big enough of a corporation that they will be able to at least outsource a transmission, or engineer one in the next 18 months until sales commence.

February 16, 2011 9:19 pm

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Decypha

I don't understand, how long have they been working on this M5? And this becomes an issue now? After all the spied pictures and videos we've seen of this thing? They couldn't do something to sort it out? The thing that adds allure to the German brands is that they seemingly keep doing what seems unlikely, I think BMW should sort the M-DCT out (no compromises), it'll be an expense now but the BMW brand will benefit in the long-run.

February 16, 2011 10:12 pm

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nederinaa

It is just a glorified boosted up 550i with M skirtings just like what the 1-series M coupe which is fitted with the old twin turbo 135i engine. Golf R is based on the more powerful Mk5 2.0TFSI. Oh come on BMW, are you saying the M people can't match the AMG boys on developing a DSG? maybe they've spent a lot of time fixing the front bumper's design

February 16, 2011 11:41 pm

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3 replies

Mirko

The AMG MCT isn't a DSG-type transmission. It's a planetary automatic with a wet clutch instead of the torque converter. The SLS uses a dual clutch transmission made by Getrag, just like BMW's M-DCT. Porsche's PDK is made end engineered by ZF.

February 17, 2011 1:17 am

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Saebb

So was the E39 M5. Its engine was based on the 4.4l V8 from the 540i. See nothing wrong with that. M is more than just the engine.

February 17, 2011 1:44 am

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nederinaa

Yes the E39 M5's is also shared with the E52 Z8. It is a 4.9 L (4,941 cc (301.5 cu in)) V8 engine and is based on the same architecture as the regular aluminium block 4.4 L BMW M62 powerplant found in the E39 540i. BMW Motorsport (M) Division has extensively modified the engine for increased power and torque. The E60 M5 was a revelation! 5.0 V10 with SMG2. Pure bespoke. It is a shame that BMW gave the M-Division boys will little budget and less toys to play. Previous M5 engines were assembled at M division headquarters in Garching, Germany but the S62 M5 engines were assembled at the Dingolfing assembly plant.

February 17, 2011 3:31 am

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Aesthetics

hillarious!!!! the entire german motor industry must be laughing at this. the m5's development has been long enough to avoid such a mistake wow, heads will roll

February 17, 2011 1:07 am

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Saebb

Is there any confirmation about those rumours by BMW? I don't see any. The E60 M5 wasn't either available with a manual tranny in Europe. Just in the US with the tranny of the 550i. Don't know if it fitted the car that well.

February 17, 2011 1:42 am

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the hell with developing an M5 then. just get Alpina to do a new B10 biturbo for the F10.

February 17, 2011 5:05 am

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badaboom

I'll take a less sophisticated 6 speed manual ..how about that BMW ?

February 17, 2011 6:44 am

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FloPoe

I guess not a lot of you know but the E60 M5 was only sold with a manual gearbox in the US - over here in Germany (yes, the home market) the M5 was only available with SMG transmission. So for German customers it wouldn't be any difference!

February 17, 2011 9:28 am

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2 replies

joshg_5

I did not know that! I'm quite surprised actually. I thought of all people, the Germans would want the stick.

February 17, 2011 10:20 am

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zeiar

That's very interesting if it's true - manual only for the home of automatic (the US)? I've always thought that people in the US wouldn't buy manual cars especially in this car class. I also think that BMW should make the M5 with DCT, nowadays that the DCT is the way to say that we are on the edge of technology. It would look old fashioned and pitiful to offer the brand new M5 with an normal automatic transmission. Does anyone know were the manual transmission any good in the M5 E60 US model where it was offered? How many gears were in it?

February 17, 2011 2:07 pm

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Shark

Those genius engineers should be fired!!!

February 17, 2011 10:08 am

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HEMI426

Great news. Maybe now they're finally thinking of a manual gearbox. I still find it weard that they made a manual E60 model and not for europe but for the us.

February 17, 2011 12:42 pm

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MadAboutCars

Anything is possible in a sense that BMW can outsource the the damn gearbox from a different supplier, if Ferrari, Merc and the highly sorted cheap in comparison GTR can couple DCTs to torquey engines there is no excuse for BMW and the institution that is to have such a problem unless they are putting profit ahead of product.

February 18, 2011 8:03 am

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trevtremaine

Ahh! The demise of a leader. As long as other manufacturers produce vehicles with manuals and better performing DCTs this "boutique" marquee will decline. I wonder if these engines will have the same turbocharger/fuel pump issues that the N54 had? Any late model BMW with turboed engines have had severe problems, and a litany of other non-engine issues as well - hence why they're near the bottom of the quality polls like most of the other high-end brands (Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar).

February 18, 2011 9:30 am

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February 16, 2011 3:00 pm By Alex Ricciuti

Filed Under: BMW, German, Rumours

Tags: 2012 BMW M5 , M5 , 2012 M5 , BMW M5 spied , BMW M5 blue , blue BMW M5 , 2012 M5 spied , 2012 M5 gearbox , 2012 M5 F10 , 2012 F10 M5 transmission ,
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