Mercedes Dealers React Negatively to All Hybrid S-Class Range Reports

 Mercedes Dealers React Negatively to All Hybrid S-Class Range Reports
Mercedes-Benz S 400 Hybrid

Some US dealers are very much concerned about an alleged plan by Daimler's Mercedes-Benz division to offer all S-Class models as hybrid-only within its next-generation line. Word is Stuttgart is planning on doing away with petrol- and diesel-only power for the upcoming S-Class, due in Europe in 2013 and the US in 2014. This would help keep its C02 emissions commitments within stringent European and upcoming US laws, and help it claw back some lost ground to Lexus in the hybrid race.

But the dealers are apparently not impressed. "The most important thing in the American market," said Tommy Baker, chairman of the Mercedes-Benz dealer board and a Charleston, S.C., Mercedes dealer, "regardless of hybrid, lithium or electric cars, is that we Americans are different than any market and we are going to want those gasoline engines."

Dealers' greatest fear is they will not be able to sell these S-Class hybrids. One or two hybrids in the range yes, but an entire mode line? After all, their biggest competitors from BMW and Audi have not made any such radical plans, although hybrids do form part of their overall product mix as well.

Our previous report on this matter stated that AMG models, the S 63 AMG and the S 65 AMG were to be exempted from the hybrid craze but according to Automotive News it seems they may not after all. Selling a luxury hybrid in America is not such a big deal. Just ask Lexus who sold about 10% of all their cars to the hybrid brigade last year. But a performance AMG hybrid? That could take some convincing.

 

Source: autonews.com (sub req)

All-hybrid S class? U.S. dealers groan

Diana T. Kurylko
and Jason Stein
Automotive News | April 5, 2010 - 12:01 am EST

NEW YORK -- To meet tightening global fuel-economy standards, Daimler executives in Germany are considering a radical plan: make the flagship S-class a hybrid-only lineup.

Mercedes-Benz dealer sources tell Automotive News that Stuttgart executives are considering switching all future S-class luxury cars -- including high-performance AMG models -- to full hybrids, offering no models with only internal-combustion engines.

The idea is drawing fire from some U.S. dealers, who worry that hybrids are not perceived as true performers in the market.

The switch would take place globally with the next-generation S class, which is due in Europe in 2013 and in North America a year later.

Only a handful of Mercedes dealers have been briefed on the plan. Those dealers will meet this week with Joachim Schmidt, sales and marketing chief at Mercedes-Benz Cars, at The Masters golf tournament in Augusta, Ga. Mercedes is a sponsor.

Dealers say they have been vocal about their opposition to such a switch, which they feel would change the perception of the brand.

Tommy Baker, chairman of the Mercedes-Benz dealer board and a Charleston, S.C., Mercedes dealer, said: "The most important thing in the American market -- regardless of hybrid, lithium or electric cars -- is that we Americans are different than any market and we are going to want those gasoline engines."

For S-class buyers, Baker said, the "goal is not gas mileage."

Two company sources say the board is considering the shift because it would help Mercedes-Benz reach strict European CO2 emissions standards and tougher corporate average fuel economy standards in the United States by mid-decade.

The board also wants to use the flagship S class to highlight the company's hybrid technology. The S class traditionally has been used to showcase technological advances in the Mercedes lineup, and company executives believe S-class buyers are more willing to pay for costly green technology.

Competition is also a factor. Lexus is the leader in premium vehicle hybrid sales. Last year 10 percent of all Lexus models sold in the United States were hybrids.

A decision by the Daimler board is expected within three months, one company source said.

Ernst Lieb, CEO of Mercedes-Benz USA, confirmed Daimler is working on various "hybrid solutions for the S class."

"It isn't how will we do it, yes or no. The question is: Do we need other variations?" Lieb said last week at the New York auto show.

He would not reveal details of the discussions, but the dealer sources said the hybrid technology being proposed is in the development stage and would use lithium ion batteries. The S-class models would be full hybrids.

A mild hybrid uses an electric motor and acts as a start/stop system, but the electric motor does not drive the vehicle by itself. A full hybrid can be driven short distances using only the electric motor.

Mercedes-Benz now sells only a mild hybrid, the S400 -- which is the entry model for the S class and priced at $88,825, including destination. With an electric motor teamed with a 3.5-liter V-6 gasoline engine, the S400 has 30 percent better fuel economy than a comparable S550.

The S400 is the only six-cylinder S class sold in the United States.

But U.S. dealers say hybrid versions of the S550 V-8 model and S600 V-12 models, and the costly S63 AMG and S65 AMG, would go too far, and they fear they wouldn't be able to sell the cars. The S65 AMG costs $202,025, including freight, and is purchased for performance, not fuel economy.

The biggest dealer concern is with an AMG hybrid and whether it would sell against gasoline-powered versions of the Audi S8 and BMW 7 series.

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 mongo mongo
F_ _k such dealers! I want every Mercedes to be a hybrid not just every S-class.
April 6, 2010 12:13 pm
 sub39h sub39h
then clearly you're a moron. what happens when you're not in the city or when the electricity runs out? the car will use petrol only power, and will be more polluting than a conventional car because of the extra weight it carries. all these fuel economy and CO2 figures are generated in a lab at a specific speed under certain parameters. car manufacturers are designing their cars to look good in these conditions so that their cars are more attractive, but the reality of it is that in the real world they may not necessarily be as good as they say they are. (i'm aware that in the USA fuel consumption figures are calculated in real world driving conditions, however considering we're talking about a European car here my point still stands.) hybrids are not the way forwards. this shouldn't even be a debate anymore!
April 6, 2010 5:18 pm
 sideskraper sideskraper
Actually you're an idiot. No hybrid will ever be driven in such a manner that no benefit of the hybrid system will be realised over the life of the vehicle.
April 6, 2010 8:23 pm
 joshg_5 joshg_5
Mongo: You obviously don't belong (or deserve to be) on this site. Please keep such comments to yourself, or maybe visit priusfanatics.com and share your nonsense there.
April 7, 2010 12:13 am
 sub39h sub39h
@sideskraper wait until you've seen a Prius being driven at full pelt up the motorway. what possible benefit is the hybrid drivetrain having? i've seen numerous ppl charging around in hybrid cars. that's not the point - for the most part people can make a difference by changing their driving style rather than driving a hybrid. top gear did a run on their track where a Prius was being driven at 11/10ths being followed by an M3 saloon who just had to keep up and the M3 was more economical than the Prius at the end of it because it could be a lot gentler. i reckon if the governments banned hybrids and taught everyone to drive properly, keep their tyres filled and get rid of all the crap in their cars it'd do a lot more good than filling the world with hybrids.
April 7, 2010 5:32 am
 NewGit NewGit
sub39h -- I agree. I add this though, if you want to cut emissions in cities, make people walk/ride/crawl whatever... or you could go down the pneumatic car route. We can then use wind/tidal/waste heat power to compress air to drive the cars.
April 7, 2010 6:26 am
 otakki otakki
They should at least keep the diesel.
April 6, 2010 12:46 pm
 alessandro alessandro
Fantastic news on alliance between Renault and Daimler will affect to this attitude quit strongly.
April 6, 2010 12:52 pm
 rcw rcw
I am an American, and I feel that it's time that the American buying public changes. Sadly, what this dealer rep is saying is only reflective of a lot of American buying taste. This type of me 1st, greedy, outdated mentality is embarrassing. I am proud of our country, but not of this time of stagnant thinking. It's time to move on people, this isn't 1950 anymore, and it?s probably a good time for us to start adapting to it!
April 6, 2010 12:53 pm
 CDspeed CDspeed
@ rcw........You are right I've met too many people that still think its 1950 and gas will last forever and nothing is wrong with the atmosphere. Now I'm no ECO geek but I do think we are long over due in using clean energy that doesn't need to be shipped all over the world from the middle east.
April 6, 2010 1:41 pm
 radmeister radmeister
The weak adapt, the strong shape the future for others to adapt to. If the US wants to stay ontop of the economic world and the crisis they need to be the ones shaping the future by leading us into a new technological age. Which is not going to happen with the current mentality of stick to what you know, bury your head in the dirt until this blows over.
April 6, 2010 1:42 pm
 radmeister radmeister
I don't get what the big deal is, this dealer dude quoting seems to be slightly retarded. MB never said that they would be producing plug-in electric S-Classes, but their goal is more along the lines of KERS. A gasoline or diesel will still power the car, and in a big heavy sedan like the S-Class i would welcome the extra "free" umph to start off the line in stop/go traffic even though it comes from a faux-pas electric motor. Nothing wrong with this idea, tax refund goes up, fuel consumption goes down, performance goes up, fuel costs go down, and if you care about the environment you save some of that too.
April 6, 2010 1:39 pm
 benz_man benz_man
My thoughts exactly! This dealer douche-bag needs to learn a few things about the product before he goes around contaminating the whole lot...
April 6, 2010 1:49 pm
 CDspeed CDspeed
Personally I like the all hybrid line idea. Hybrids do bring us one step closer to emissions free driving. It does seem that cars are headed toward an electric future so if America want its "energy independence" you'd think we'd welcome the change. After all fully electric cars are not very faraway.
April 6, 2010 1:54 pm
 tbrodie tbrodie
If they come close to hitting the mileage targets, I don't think they'll have a problem.
April 6, 2010 2:46 pm
 Alfafox5 Alfafox5
Supporting an all-hybrid range may sound cool, but it's not. Just ask yourself where all the raw materials will come from to make so many batteries. Yeah, batteries come from the earth by ripping minerals and ore from the ground. So before you say HOORAY! get real. Diesels are the best choice because they can be made to run on virtually anything - (hemp oil would be the best as it's not a food crop and would not compete with cotton derivative either.) While the goal of lower emissions and higher MPG's is great, the execution must be great too. A drastic move like this, though I support the general idea - requires more thought than just a bunch of big cars with redundant systems. Hell they are a lot heavier too! So if all cars were hybrid, the Electric Grid (hope it's updated soon) in the US would have added strain, power usage made mostly from Coal would increase, gasoline would still be in use, and batteries full of toxic components (Minus hopes for the BYD Ferrous Metal Oxide {Rust} battery) would need new infrastructure to be recycled and replacement costs would affect the resale value of the vehicle. I don't like the tone of the dealer, but I also refuse to embrace hybrids as some panacea, they have a cost too! At this time that cost is NOT less than driving an existing design. Thanks!
April 6, 2010 6:43 pm
 CDspeed CDspeed
Oil has to be pulled from the earth. And now and then an oil tanker runs aground and devastates a large section of ocean. Bio-diesel sounds great but its still rare to find. No solution is flawless.
April 7, 2010 7:09 am
 R129SL R129SL
To anyone who says hybrids are kinder to the environment, you are greatly mistaken. The damage it causes to the earth as you extract ore from it... The energy alone it takes to smelt said ore. What do you think is powering all those smelters??? What's that you say? Coal?! People are so ignorant. Just because someone tells you something may be ok, doesn't mean you should take their word. Think of the bigger picture. Being american I wouldn't have the slightest problem with driving a diesel. Preferraby a bio diesel. I think more manufacturers should gravitate towards bringing diesels to the states... In europe over 70% of vehicles are diesels. Clearly they're on to something. And biodiesel is renewable. Unlike battery harvesting. It's just another fossil fuel situation.
April 6, 2010 8:13 pm
 sideskraper sideskraper
Enough with the overall cost of hybrid systems. That analysis was flawed when it was released and is now severely out of date. Most hybrids use their onboard engines as their power source, not the grid. Even if they did all plug in the increased usage on a nations power grid would be negligible. No system will ever have zero impact on the earth. But without development of technologies we have today, the future technologies that power our vehicles will not exist. Enough also with preaching about Diesel. I for one don't want my expensive and luxurious car to go CLAK CLAK CLAK CLAK CLAK like a delivery truck after two years. Biofuels also have a significant environmental cost of production. Not to mention economic cost of production.
April 6, 2010 8:31 pm
 joshg_5 joshg_5
Modern diesel technology has voided any of the "clak" sounds. It is the most effective and efficient technology that is viable globally. Obviously you care about what other people think about your car too much. If you care about a "Clak", then how do you prefer the BUZZ BUZZ HUMM of a hybrid? You're a victim of hybrid marketing techniques.
April 7, 2010 12:17 am
 sideskraper sideskraper
Actually they haven't defeated the old chestnut. Within 2 years, modern diesels (ie: BMW/MB/Audi) that I have direct experience with all start making noise. It's not what other people think about my cars, it's the direct experience that I have. You can't ignore the noise. That is not what I want from my car after a couple of years. I would much rather have a quiet whirl sound than a loud CLAK CLAK CLAK CLAK CLAK. Coming from my car.
April 7, 2010 4:06 am
 NewGit NewGit
This doesn't make sense though. If you buy an expensive luxury car then surely fuel economy etc is of no concern -- I'm assuming that you would be able to afford it. The installation of hybrids is mostly marketing with maybe convincing people to overleverage. You could buy a top of the line lower segment or, you could stretch given the tax reductions to buy into bare luxury. Maybe I am too cynical?
April 7, 2010 6:39 am
 2010S5 2010S5
S classes are driven by old rich men and their wives who don't give a damn about what's under the hood be it a petrol, diesel, hybrid or some midget working a power generator. As long as the S class maintains its prestige, image and drivability then I don't see what would prevent people from buying them. Nearly everyone I know who drives around an S 550 wouldn't give two sh!ts about what's under their hoods as long as it gets them from a to b in style and comfort. I certainly don't like the fact that the entire S class range is going to be hybrid but it's an unfortunate fact of life that things will have to change. With all the engine downsizing and innovations in electric drivetrains going on, our future cars are destined to be mere household appliances until some genius invents a magical petrol/engine that can do 350 MPG. Until then, goodbye gas guzzling V8s.
April 8, 2010 1:15 pm