2011 BMW M5 Details Spilled - Wagon Variant Axed

If "the king" costs $23k more than a car that performs as well or better, then methinks its reign is a little tenuous. Younger, healthier noblemen who will demand a little less in the way of tithing are grabbing their daggers. As for this new M5, which is guaranteed to be more expensive than the outgoing one, it might outgun the CTS-V...but the Corvette ZR1's motor will fit in the CTS-V. And even so - I'm not prepared to spend $23k on marketing fluff and prestige. That's a hell of a lot to spend on a badge.

The CTS-V uses a detuned version of the ZR1 motor.

Very good response, reality_check. Fishes, Narco.

not just that, but M-Sport has completely sold out on all it's philosophies. high revving naturally aspirated engines? gone. no automatics? gone. no SUVs? gone. i've lost a lot of respect for the M-Sport division over the past few years. i hope they don't cock up the M3.

sure if u want the Earth to burn in Hell! :)

its nice to see that im not the only one who thinks the M Division has kinda lost the plot, now all we'll do is talking about their history, about how the e39 was the most beautiful M5, the e34 was the last hand made M division car and how the e60's engine will never be equaled. for they've lost all of what we thought were their core virtues.

sub39h , let's face it, High revving NA engines are dinosaurs.

The answer to your first question: Sales are way ahead of where they would be expected because there are always people like you who think that all of the cars porsche makes are very good. You are not able to say that one car built by porsche is bad. Furthermore, everyone has its own tastes and I think that is why a group of people like Panamera. We all know that IN GENERAL people would prefer M5, but only a fiew could buy one. So the sells don't show which one is the KING. Everyone has his own KING and in general it is M5.

HAHAHA. Wait you serious? No way panamera will even come close. Not even the turbo s model. A panamera is overpriced for what it delivers. How do you know which one handles better...? Currently the X5 M kicks the turbo S cayenne in the face and is priced 50% cheaper. The only awesome Porsche out there are 911s. Rest are overpriced VWs.

fanboi battle ftw ! both the Panamera and the M5 have their strong points. there are people who don't care about the price and don't want to draw attention, the M5 would be the better choice for that. you can also put 5 people in the M5.

Radmeister, I usually agree with and appreciate your comments, but I have to say this is really wrong! He's saying when the time comes for Caddy to do a mid cycle reno on the car, they'll be able to improve it's competitive ability in the segment by fitting in an even more awesome version of the ZR1 engine. Secondly, I think that's a very non-worldcarfan thing to say about Cadillac's reputation. There has to be many people who would agree that Cadillac has deservedly established a great reputation recently, and are putting out some very well performing and competitive vehicles. Also, for all the diehard v-10 N/A fans out there that hate the fact that M has forgotten it's N/A roots, the CTS may be a very good alternative (even though it's only a lowly V-8, it's still N/A). Plus you do get to keep 5 digits in your pocket at purchase... despite the fact you don't get the iconic propeller emblem on your bonnet. End of the day, they're both amazing cars, and worthy competitors in the eye of any enthusiast.

@radmeister: Which would still be a, imo(!), boring sounding crossplane V8. The great sounding and performing V10 made the last M5 somewhat special.

At the end of the day Cadillac is still in my opinion nowhere near BMWs grade or Audi or even the new E63s class. It is an alternative, for 2 kinds of people, die hard cadillac fans/patriots, and ones who want performance but cant afford the extra 50k for a real car. It does not mean it is not a good car, but is it even in the top 5 in the category? NO WAY! M5, E63, RS6, Panamera, Rapide, Quattroporte, IS-F. All of which are better cars, both on the quality and class fronts. I'm sorry maybe i'm just not Hugh Heffner, i'll take Scarlett Johansson over a playboy bunny any day. And that's what the CTS-V is, sure it's hot but it's not beautiful or refined by any means. Can't make a hoe into a house wife.

Oh and so what, the Cadillac can eventually have the ZR-1 engine, BMW as one of the best engine makes in the world i am sure can compete. A performance version of the 6L V12 with twin turbos would net easily 800hp...I mean you have to remember BMW was in Formula 1 and is in all types of racing, they have the R&D to produce any kind of engine...GM not so much. You have to remember BMW was around in the F1 days with 1.5L engines pumping over 1000hp. Porsche in LMS with 1500hp cars in the 80s. It's not about how much power you can put in your car, all car companies who are involved in F1 have the capabilities to manufacture 3L V8s making close to 1000hp. GM sadly doesn't, no forming facilities or experience with high end alloy designs and fab. On thing to always keep in mind, the big 3 euro and toyota spend per year more on R&D alone what GM's operating budget is for the year.

Americans like their cars, the rest of the world doesn't give a damn about American cars, no matter how powerful and cheap the Cadillac is, people who want a high end sedan will go for BMW, MB, Audi, Porsche, Jaguar.

@ radmeister , Amen to the Scarlett Johansson comment.

Most likely gearing. This could have a transmission focused more on acceleration than top speed. Probably to claim the fastest sedan title for the ring.

these are only speculations. but it depends on the gearbox. with shorter gear ratios it means it has less top speed , but it accelerates faster.

Oh you want us to look at it scientifically, well who has won more quality awards? Cadillac or BMW? Who has won more engine awards? Who has a lower depreciation rate? Who has innovated more technologies, in safety, fuel efficiency, and user comfort/entertainment? Let's say styling is an individual opinion and cannot be quantified. I mean you think it is really just a badge? How many badges have come and gone, from companies that failed to produce a high quality product. Those badges now mean nothing. If BMWs were crap and Cadillacs were amazing then their prices would be inversed. BMWs have been selling for more $ than the equivalent for quite a few decades, you think if all you were getting was a badge people would have kept buying them? Statistics and brand image prove the reality, BMW is a better brand than Cadillac. Sure Cadillac is coming up in quality and design, but they have done this many times, whenever their image went down they popped out 1-2 models that were great to build their image up again and then back to the regular ways of producing crap. The way that GM works and this is coming from an insider is they will release the new CTS, the first cars produced in the first 6months will be great. Then they go back to the laboratory and ask ok well what has failed on these cars in these 6 months, the parts that haven't failed they start reducing the quality on to save costs. They are a rollercoster of brand image and quality. Where as BMW is constant, just like Toyota/Honda. Consistency at being one of the best is what builds a lasting brand image. Also people that buy a CTS-V and an M5 are different, the CTS-V is for pretenders people that like to act like they have $ and live the lavished life and need people to know that. The M5 is a sign that you are there, you have money, you like fast luxurious cars, and you don't really care if people notice because you're successful enough where their opinions don't matter. The M5 is mostly bought by younger executives, lawyers and doctors. There are about 5 of them in the parking lot at the hospital near my house. You think a doctor cares about you random joe blow and if your car is better than his? Doubt it. Try telling that to a CTS-V owner, they will start fuming and explaining themselves to you and why your car is not better.