BMW considers diesel engine for M series

BMW X6 M

Z4 M killed off

By Thami Masemola
July 22, 2009 4:19 PM
Filed Under: BMW, German, Rumours

Disappointment and hope are two words that could be used to describe the feelings of BMW fans when they finish reading this article. The disappointment would be generated after learning that BMW's M Division has not ruled out the possibility of producing a turbo diesel-powered M car. But at the same time there is no saying exactly which model this would be.

In an interview with Autocar, M development chief Albert Biermann admitted that an diesel M car was a possibility, albeit quite a distant one.

"With cars like the X5 and X6 M, the torque characteristics of diesel engines would make them the ideal choice, were it not for their unsporting character," said Biermann.

In what could be interpreted as a jab at Audi's R8 V12 TDI concept as well as a Q7 of the same engine, Biermann's comments were: ""I don't think there's a proven business case for big diesel-engined performance cars yet," he said, "but if that changes, we'll be well placed to take advantage."

The last sentence may mean that his engineers have been doing some groundwork already on this front, but that they are having some unspecified challenges. A hybrid solution of some kind though, is something being considered.

"Battery-assisted performance is something we're looking into," Biermann stated, "although flywheel-driven ‘flybrids' look more promising for us."

As far as two models with good M potential go, Biermann has a mixed bag of comments. Firstly the Z4 is definitely not getting M treatment. The reasons put forward are that it is such a heavy car that tuning it for performance with the 309kW (420hp) 4.0-litre V8 would position it too closely to the M3 Convertible. And the old trusted 3.2-litre mill does not have the required ‘green' credentials anymore.

Finally, something to give BMW fans hope, is that a 1 Series Roadster-based M car is entirely possible.
I would love to produce this kind of car," admitted Biermann. "It's very difficult to make the numbers add up, but I know that I'm not the only person who likes the idea."

A recent report by Automotive News on the deceased M7 suggested that new M boss Kay Segler would be looking to see if a 1 M was feasible for the next generation model. So there is hope yet.

 

Source: autocar

Comments

WazWii
July 22, 2009 4:44 PM
I really think M is finished now. When they were on top they were producing lovely N/A engines such as the E46 M3 CSL AND E46 M3 as well as the E39 M5. That is all there was, a coupe and a saloon, there was no need for more. This was their peak; the move to this generation E60 M5 and E63 M6 has brought them their greatest technical achievements i.e. that insane V10 but the styling of the M5 is too controversial, which I know is not M's fault. Although I must say the SMG box and the mileage range is not really a perfect combination either. I do worry for the future though; no more high revving N/A engines, no more CSL models, no more M roadsters either, the M Coupe was always a hooligan! Then you have to ask what is M without those properties? All these arguments about a Diesel just make things worse and when talking about appropriate cars how do the X6 M and X5 M fit in with their weight? Those cars have no officially been reviewed and the feedback is poor, at best 3/5 (Evo actually gave it a shocking 2/5). And they were not exactly bragging about the engine that is going in the new M5 and M6. I really worry for the future; where was the M6 CSL, the M CSL Roadster, the CS Concept and next generation Z8?; the cars true enthusiasts should have seen made?


Edited by user on July 22, 2009 at 5:32 PM
TheKing
July 23, 2009 6:52 PM
I don't see a problem with the M5's styling. To be honest, I think it looks great! When you comparing it to the latest Jag and Audi's boring down syndrome looking RS6, the M5 looks royal! As for the turbo-charged engines.... it is what the market is looking for. It is nice to have N/A engines but people who are buying these cars only compare the output now a days, which is a real shame. That's why BMW is forced to go this route. But BMW must keep some N/A M cars in their line up. As for the X5 and 6M, Ihave been reading positive reports about the car. These SUV M's should not be compared to the M3 and M5's. They are afterall, mean SUV's.

awhk
July 22, 2009 5:03 PM
Cool, the M's are really losing it.

bcuth
July 23, 2009 1:19 AM
How are they loosing it? They are building better, faster, more fuel efficent cars with less emissions

TheKing
July 23, 2009 6:54 PM
BMW diesels are the best in the auto industry with great potential. I don't see why they cannot make an M using it. The idea of a 1 Series M is definately spot on. Imagine the new M1 based on the current already sporty Coupe!!! They will fly out the showroom floors like crazy!

Fer
July 22, 2009 5:50 PM
I think that BMW M is taking the correct way. It´s necessary to look back to the past and learn from what we were. But it´s more important to have a look to the future, and that´s just what BMW, as well as Audi or others are doing. Adaptation to a new era. And for all those who dislike diesel engines, just think about what Mr. Biermmann says about torque in modern turbodiesel engines... or just proove one of them (and i usually drive two petrol engines, one of them a 211HP V6, so i konw about what i´m talking) So just let BMW M adaptate to future...

TheKing
July 23, 2009 6:58 PM
diesel is the new fashion! those who dislike them sould try the new ones out, esp BMW's. They are just amazing! Concentrating on the future is the game and the future of diesels are brighter than petrols. One thing I do worry though - how durable are BMW's turbo? Will it increase ownership costs as the car gets older? No point in saving on fuel costs when your pay substantially more for service and repairs.

eme7
July 22, 2009 6:31 PM
Im agree whit WazWii... used to mean N/A powerfull engines on earth like M series and the mighty P80 on the McLaren F1...I were stuned when I saw the M3 CSL the coolest M3 if it had a mecanic gearbox BUT now even that gay Z4 have an M badge an engines have turbos...easy job incresing power

Dolomight 74-86
July 22, 2009 7:33 PM
If those bavarians can make a turbo diesel that can rev over 7000 rpm, they may be able to pull it off. But seriously bmw is debasing the very essence of what made their past M models so special. For example 8000 rmp, stiff suspension and light weight in the E30 M3 made it a fun car, not a practical one. It's this whole notion of make a car all things to all people that make them nothing at all. Or not sports cars anyway.

scratchy996
July 23, 2009 5:19 PM
what's the point in having high revs ? get a Mazda RX-8 if you want revs. BMW is already making diesels with more than 100hp/liter. if BMW can pull that off, imagine what the M division will do. Audi and Peugeot already proved what diesels can do on the track, it's time someone puts that technology on the road.

zdenda20
July 22, 2009 7:45 PM
Der Porsche ist building ein Cayenne Diezel!! Wie muzt du da same!

Wtf...point of an Mdiesel??? Just buy a normal BMW Diesel if u wanna save on fuel :S

shaahinmt
July 22, 2009 8:14 PM
i dont think there is any hope about M 1 series.

N20_Purge
July 23, 2009 1:53 AM
There goes the M series. At least use hybrids if you want to be eco friendly! Almost any other type of fuel is better than diesel!

scratchy996
July 23, 2009 5:13 PM
hybrids , are you kidding ?

Peamousse
July 23, 2009 3:55 AM
135i was developed with ///M's help...

BabyMilo
July 23, 2009 9:15 AM
No, it just wont sound right... A diesel?

TheKing
July 23, 2009 7:06 PM
BMW Diesel M Power! Welcome to the new world. Diesel is the future of automobiles and sports cars. More power, more torque, more grunt! The thinly refined petrol is for fragile vehicles from the past!

Jed
July 23, 2009 11:01 AM
Chaps you have to look at it from bmw's point of view.They are a business they have to make money if the produce a few very expensive csl models how much money do they make? If they produce cars for mass production they earn more money.

M Power
July 23, 2009 11:49 AM
///M ..... Diesels ..........!# !@#$%^&*( NO please no NNNOOOOOOOOOOO!

blay
July 24, 2009 1:51 PM
aaahhh your name is truly ironic now my friend :( i feel your pain...

khd
July 23, 2009 12:56 PM
those of you who are well informed with legislation changes in the auto industry would understand the temptation for M-diesel, personally so long as the thing moves and handles like a M car i wouldnt mind plus with the added fuel economy, everyones a winner!!!

as for hybrid's too heavey and until battery technology drastically improves we shouldnt be seeing hybrid M cars.


Edited by user on July 23, 2009 at 2:53 PM
arnold228
July 23, 2009 7:12 PM
no diesel, no turbo for M!! definitely!

they should continue to make a better high rev engine,with more fun..

pls dont make things like 4.4turbo in X5M &X6M again

I believe M have its tradition. Like Porsche, I dont wanna to miss it.

scratchy996
July 24, 2009 1:46 AM
high rev engines are going extinct. the age of the turbo diesel has begun.

popilirol
July 24, 2009 7:26 AM
Sadly but true, the world is changing and car manufacturers have no choice but follow the market's needs. Nowadays fuel economy comes first with no negotiations so whether we like it or not, BMW and most others are shifting their plans to build smaller displacement force-induced engines. That's the way it goes when the global economy sucks. I would have prefered much much more to have a high-rev engine than a force-induced one.

blay
July 24, 2009 1:50 PM
gotta stop you there becuth, the M Division has never been about fuel efficiency, the philosophy has always been to create monsters that can be driven on the road.

It was about creating a finely tuned machine that you can take to the nurburgring before you had to rock up to that meeting at work. A combination of race engineering and driving pleasure.

Granted that fuel efficiency is in great demand these days but that shouldn't stop the M division. There will always be people who have the want and need to buy a car that created simply for the pure pleasure, sensation, noise and speed of driving and f**k everything else. And the fact that even the M division is bowing down to something as sacriligious as a 'low reving Turbo Diesel' to power their cars is an immense loss to lovers of the brand everywhere.

As I've always said, if you want a fuel efficient car, buy yourself a cheap VW polo for your every day and get an E46 M3 as your weekend car.

mpower333
July 24, 2009 5:45 PM
I agree M is losing it's focus and heritage, examples: (X5-X6 M are you kidding me?) (a $70k bigger heavy-er M3 that isin't much faster than an e46)(dropping the M roadster). If picking the lesser of 2 evils I'd take diesel any day over some soul-less hybrid. Or worse yet that completely stupid KERS video game "power booster" nonsense. Whats next running over the gold arrow like in Mario Kart to jet foward?


Edited by user on July 24, 2009 at 5:48 PM
fusion01
July 26, 2009 1:08 PM
1 series M? fingers crossed! will be an animal. 135i already is pretty impressive.

HEMI426
August 9, 2009 9:00 PM
IT's getting worse and worse, I saw a video of the X6M and the sound was not so very good, not so brutal, more like a toyota v6. And it doesn't make reves, not really like the m5's 8.250 or m3's 8.300. I would just continu to make this engines, that's what bmw M is all about, for the c02 problem I would let them run on E85, ok the fuelconsumption get 11% worse, but the co2 is about 85% less.

~Michael~
August 15, 2009 1:19 AM
I believe it to be a wise decision for BMW to consider a diesel M.. Indeed the high revving heritage and the sound of a petrol engine will be lost.. Nevertheless; current diesel technology is astounding.. The reason diesels are more fuel efficient and powerful than petrol engines is because diesel as a fuel contains 17% more energy per unit than petrol. And the reason diesel have so much torque is because of the natural stroke length ascociated with diesel; a long stroke leads to a higher commpression ratio which is necessary for the combustion of diesel fuel; also, a long stroke and the fact that diesel is a slow burning fuel leads to the engine not being able to rev higher than approxamitely 5000Rpm; proof of that can be seen in a diesel engine that is revved to the redline; belching black smoke resulting from unburnt fuel is what you will see since diesel is a slow burning fuel.

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