Wagoner steps down from GM on Obama's insistence

About time too

I knew people would say this....but this is only half correct. The ills at GM pre-date the arrival of Wagoner. It is not his fault. However, it is also clear that Wagoner was not the man to lead GM to prosperity.

Now, when is Obama going to clear out the middle-upper level management that are the real rot at GM? GM is a hydra. All the heads must roll, not just the one.

Do you ignore or just not believe that a company cannot be profitable when only one in five of the families it supports is actively working for the company? The UAW is evil in it's purest form.

How does the President of the US get to decide who heads corporations? Surely this is something the shareholders decide.

Technically he (Obama) would be the ultimate head, given that the Fed government would own GM

I still see a little socialism in there, GM is still a private company.

I agree. The world seems to be moving in that direction with all these bailouts and company takeovers by governments. I wonder how close it will get to communism.

GM was a private company before it took $13B in Government money. If you take money the you give up the right to operate as a private company. And the shareholders should be happy that someone is stepping in and doing something different than the boneheads who run the company now are doing.

GM should file for bankruptcy anyway. All the bailout money is a complete waste. Bankruptcy will kill the UAW and the bondholders who have given up NOTHING through this whole bailout process.

Yeah, but if I'm not wrong they will give the money back, it's not like the Fed gov bought GM.

It's not that the govt owns GM, it's that if Wagoner didn't step down, there would be absolutely no chance that GM would get any more money.

There is not a chance in Hades that GM will ever be able to pay back the money it has "borrowed" from the government.

If a company is failing, the let them fail. Yes it will hurt, but there is no amount of restructuring that will fix the business model of GM.

Shareholders would definitely accept this condition, as long as the company gets a bailout. And now GM is headed by a "Fritz" :)

Finally firing the man that has been screwing GM since 2000. Good job Obama!

Are you kidding me? Wagoener has been responsible for numerous cars being rated number one in thier car class. He has scaled back thier cost structure in a major way. All Obama is going to do is coddle the union and force GM to make "green" cars that nobody is buying. Just ask Toyota (by the way Toyota has asked for 2 billion in bailout money from thier government).

The problem is the legacy cost the union forced on the car companies but threatening striking and shutting down production. Obama has no idea what he is doing. He is trying to use the car companies to further his agenda, Global Warming policies and helping the union at the expens of the industry.

@ TEN: It's anyone's guess why you aren't on Obama's Presidential Task Force on the Automotive Industry. You seem to have some insightful opinions that could come as a great boon to the undeniably intelligent people heading that group! But, of course you wouldn't help them; all they are doing is enabling Obama to pursue some personal agenda, because it's more likely the president is more interested in re-election a few months into his four-year term than he is about resolving a horrible national issue. You don't think this might just be a little more complicated than you believe it is?

Bemen:

I own an injection molding company that has supplied ALL of the auto companies since 1977. I have been in these auto plants and launched numerous programs for this industry. I think I know a bit about the industry and where the problems exist.

Numerous cars being rated #1 where? In the US perhaps, which last i checked was not the world. Also, Toyota asked for a 2 billion $ loan to cover investments they had in US based holdings that went out the window not because of poor sales. I agree that this douche should have stepped down a long time ago, his accomplishments are not worth mentioning, since he came to the position GM has been losing money every quarter. Look at all the other CEOs even Ford's they are all doing better than Wagoner. For example Porsche/VW Group, Mercedes, Hyundai look at where those companies were in 2000 and where they are now. I mean if you grade his performance in comparison to the rest of the industry he is a terrible CEO. But i don't blame him entirely, GM was on a downhill slope for a while before he came, he just didnt try to fix the problems until they got too big to be fixed.

As soon as i saw the headline it made me laugh

The first line of the article made me lol. =P

Max Mosley for CEO!

word !

Are they still friends?

This is clearly a step twords socialism and communism wich is where Obama would like to take the US. The government should not be able to dictate company decisions, whats next??

What are you guys talking about the Government should not be able to dictate these kind of things?? If the banks can do it why shouldn't the government be able to. Go to a bank and ask them for a multi-billion $ loan and see all the conditions they impose, if they don't like something in your structure they will put it as a condition for it to be changed before they give you the loan.

It’s about time!

These are some of the funniest comments I've read on WCF yet; it seems as though at least two people on here don't know the difference between Capitalism, Socialism, and Communism. Roger426 and thamzn, let me help you out. Capitalism in the US is failing - hence the bailouts. I would expect that you would contact your state's senator / governor and demand that all federal funds that were allocated to help people within your state be returned - using federal money for the benefit of society is socialism. Also, as I don't know of the government dictating what people can wear, what jobs they have to take, and how much they can be paid, I'd say that you're nowhere near Communism - There you go; a high school level political science point free of charge!

Thanks Viking. You are too smart for us.

I know you're being sarcastic buddy, but I'll take it anyways! Here's to hoping that the workers that are displaced by GM's restructuring/bankruptcy are allocated to companies/industries whereby their years of experience can be better utilized.

GM could use a change indeed. Yet...I think they should cancel production of most big fat SUVs, instead of firing somebody.

TEN..is correct and I have been saying this for years.. when a car in the US cost's 10 times that to produce in Asia...you have problems. It is the UAW and their Legacy that is killing/killed GM. GM pays $12b US a year more than the cost of ALL the steel they use to make the bloody new cars!. Obama should be taking over all these legacy costs for past retired and Stop them for ALL existing and new employees and totally restructure Auto Workers entitlements. Otherwise all the Feds are doing is flushing Taxpayer $$$s down the drain...let them go bankrupt PLEASE and put them out of misery.

Yup, TEN hit the nail on the head. GM will continue sinking until LARGE concessions are made by the UAW. Wagoner leaving is just symbolic. He's actually been responsible for GM's recent competitive products. The products aren't selling because of consumer perception. Consumer perception is down because of decades of inferior product. The real problem solving won't begin until the restructuring gets ugly and peoples feelings start getting hurt...

What competitive products are you talking about exactly? What do they have that is competitive in the mass market that will make them viable??? Ok they have the CTS-V, the Vette...That's about it really. What do they have to compete against the Golf/Yaris/Fit/Rio? That piece of junk Daewoo Aveo that hasn't been selling since they first introduced it. Then lets go to the Jetta/Corolla/Civic/Magentis, they have again a piece of junk..the Cobalt. I mean how are they competitive in the market? Sure they have some great cars in categories where 10-20k units/year is amazing, but that's not the market that keeps a company afloat. They are a complete and utter failure. They did this in the 60s, sat there thinking oh we are so big and powerful who needs quality, who needs to improve on anything, people will continue buying our junk because they have no other choice, cue the japs, they came in and almost killed the US auto industry. Now it's round two, maybe Japan on it's own wasn't enough to topple the Big 3, but surely the world is. They have been beat, by their own blindness and ego. The way i see it for the past 10 years or so the world has been moving forward greatly in the automotive industry, quality, fuel economy, design, and technology. I look back at GM and it seems like they haven't been doing enough, they've only changed and adapted to the new world enough to stay afloat and be able to break even, and then the crisis came and BAM they realize maybe just breaking even wasn't enough. Everybody blames the union, here is some news for you Toyota has plants in the US and Canada also and they pay their people better than GM. The problem came from the CEOs and board of directors who's job is simply to have insight and guide the company towards the future. Simply put they got lazy and greedy, their personal futures were secured within the first year with salaries above 1mil and bonuses in the 2-5mil range. The problem was and still is management doesn't care about the company or product, they care about their paycheque, to solve the problem put all upper management on a performance based payscale which incorporates quality, productivity, and new developments. Change the mentality that simply getting by is ok throughout the company. Change the mentality of the workers, make them feel more attached and not overlook quality problems on the assembly line, give them the power to bring up new ideas and concerns. Ideally what you want in a car company where everyone acts and thinks like they are building THEIR car, not some junk that eventually some clown will buy.

I'm gonna make this sweet and to the point. Legacy costs for previous union workers is eating GM alive. If you notice, all of the import companies that have established factories in the US reside in the SOUTH. The ONLY reason for this, is to skip out on the workers unions up north. How can a company be profitable when it costs them twice as much to produce a product because they're required to pay previous workers for their service. Delve a little deeper radmeister and understand what is all at stake. Malibu, Cruze, Acadia, Enclave, Traverse, CTS, Suburban, Silverado, Yukon, Tahoe, Volt. None of these products are perfect (no product is). The key word is competitive. Ex: a Malibu is superior to a Camry in some ways, and a Camry is superior to a Malibu in some ways. Specifically, like any other company, tech roles down hill. Cadillac is leading the way. Had GM not run into financial trouble, the next STS/DTS would be appearing and it would be BMW/Mercedes/Audi/Lexus/Infiniti competition. Now, it appears Cadillac might fall in that weird pseudo-luxury place...like Acura.

If these costs were the cause howcome they were doing more than fine up until the mid 90s? Sure the legacy payments grew, but not that substantially in the 10 years. I think the root of the problem is not their operating costs, Ferrari pays much better than GM, so does Lamborghini, so does Porsche. The trick is to realize your costs and design a product that can sell well enough to cover your costs and make a profit. When they sat at the drawing board they wrote down some anticipated sales figures based on some statistics, the cost to produce each unit, and they came up with a selling price. I guarantee you that they make profit on each vehicle sold. What happened is they lost customer interest, they didn't accommodate to new demands, and they became something like one of those stores that sells you all kinds of junk with no real purpose, and not specializing at one thing resulting at being crappy at everything. The root of the problem in my opinion is still inferior products that other than some styling cues belong back in the 90s. This comes from years of management not guiding the company into the future and thinking that they are safe because they are one of the "big" three. And the workers letting quality problems slide by because "oh it's not my car". I've been through both Toyota and GM plants here in Canada and i must tell you they are a completely different atmosphere. At GM everybody is miserable, they don't give a rat's ass about what they are building. Go into a toyota plant and everything is different, from how clean the floor is the smiles on people's faces. At GM there are very few critical quality checkpoints along the line, at the Toyota plant i went to where the new Camry is built at all workstations along the line there is a master stop button. If you see a problem you stop the line, until the engineers and quality people can find out what caused that problem and fix it so it doesn't happen again. And the worker gets an incentive for pointing out a problem. Thats why among other things Toyota is the pioneer of quality. At GM they don't care, it took 123 Cobalts to go through the line for them to realize their laser scanner at the ABS system install station wasn't reading the chassis serial # properly and 123 cars that were supposed to have ABS came off the line without it...Like please don't sit there and try to tell me that everything at GM is fine, and people suddenly got retarded in the last 10 years and stopped buying GM products for no reason. Also if you think the union is the root of the problem you are so wrong. Lots of car companies that pay more and have more benefits, lots of other type of companies that pay more and are union, especially in the mining and steel business and oil. Yet they are all still profitable.

Now to the cars, ok Malibu is pretty nice although i dont like the rear end its an overall decent car. Would i choose it over a camry, not really the dash is not as well assembled, and the plastic is of lower grade which when combined after 100,000km and listening to music loudly = rattles. Cruze is decent, but a failure in my opinion, a sign of their mental retardation if you will. Why did they take an opel Insignia and make it more ugly? Just bring the bloody Insignia over the way it is...Wouldn't buy it just because of that. I mean other than the Enclave and CTS nothing they have really shines above the competition, sure they may all have some nice aspects but they don't get enough check marks to get many people to buy GM over the competition. The volt....what can i say, i think it will be a disaster and coffin in the nail for GM, they cannot sell at CTS for 40k which is 10x the car the Volt is what makes them think they can sell the Volt? I mean unless gasoline goes up to 1.30$/L again and electricity stays at 0.0749$/kwh you are better off using gasoline, and much better off using diesel. Right now with the 0.78$/L Diesel the Volt gets something like the equivalent of a diesel getting 40mpg..Cost wise that is. And for 40k? No thanks. Wagoner should have been shot for putting the company's future on this idiotic idea of a hybrid-electric GM at 40,000$.

Radmeister, at first I laughed at you comparing salaries and benefits of GM employees with those of Ferrari Lamborghini and Porsche. Then I realized. No the GM employees probably get paid more. After benefits, the AVERAGE gm employee makes $75 an hour. And before the Obama administration stepped in the union had GM so tightly wound around their finger that they weren't farming out all the bad jobs like janitorial. So many of those $75 an hour people don't even have a university education! Companies like Porsche should pay their employees lots! When you average $20,000 profit per car you sell based solely on brand name recognition and appreciation, you want only the best employees and are willing to pay top dollar for them. Have you ever met union workers before? The majority of them are lazy. Since the union protects their jobs so well they have no incentive to work hard. Also, 40mpg for the volt eh? I don't know about you, but I could drive all the way across Edmonton and back without paying a cent for gas. If I plug into the block heater outlets charger's then there is no end to free fuel. Maybe in your dreams 40mpg, I bet you think it would be cheaper to drive a "60" mpg diesel jetta...

Where is this free electricity you speak of? And yeah i have worked both in a union, and as a manager of 140 union employees. I really don't know where you are getting your figures from, a janitor at GM makes like 14$/hr, starting wage is like 18$/hr and goes up every 3 months to a maximum of 34$/hr, even with benefits and pension that comes to about 45$/hr. Even a shift supervisor wouldn't make 75$/hr. Department manager may, and he's not union. 75$/hr is 150,000$/year roughly if you fell for the propaganda that the union is to blame for this problem because they make 75$/hr you are fooling yourself. You are also fooling yourself thinking that you will be able to charge the volt from those parkinglot block heater outlets...I highly doubt it will charge on 10amps or hell even 15amps, and if it does it's sure going to take a hell of a lot longer to charge your battery than 2.5hrs. And yeah you know what, sit there and do the math yourself, calculate the equivalent cost of going 100km on electricity based on the Volt's efficiency with a cost of 0.0749$/kwh(rate in ontario) and see what it is compared to a Jetta TDI. Also remember that the Volt is 10-15,000$ more than a Fully loaded TDI, you would not live long enough to make up that difference even if diesel shot up to 1.30$/L.

I said after benefits Radmeister. Google search average GM wage and you will get from $73.21/hr to $81.18 an hour. Also, I don't know how it is where you live, but where I live most people work more then 2.5 hours and those block heater outlets in most places are standard outlets. You can start a car with a charger off of them. You want me to do the math? Ok, at 120V and 20 amps it takes the Volt 10 hours to fully charge. Hmmm... about 18 cents an hour to charge, if you charge it up every night you can make it it to work and back, without spending a single penny on fuel, even if you do go outside your range you are going to get hybrid fuel economy numbers. It gets half it's charge in only an hour so you can make it the 20 miles even if you are lazy and work an hour a day. Also, I am willing to wager that by November gas and diesel prices will be around $1.20 again.