Audi A4 Outsells BMW 3-Series in Germany

Umm yea, actually it does.

"Is it better quality no?"

Umm yea, actually it is.

now, it's no secret i prefer bmw's to their direct rivals, but that doesn't mean i'm a fanboy. let's try to break this down into simple, unbiased fact.

bmw and mercedes have been locked in competition since bmw's entrance into the luxury market. people looking for a mid-high priced german luxury car had a very simple choice: if they wanted absolute comfort and surefooted relaxation, they went down to a mercedes showroom and found the best one they could afford. if they wanted a car that was fun to throw around a bend or to just enjoy the sensation of twisting it through the corners, a bmw was the order of the day. it was quite simple: one had comfort and relaxation, one had driveability and excitement. and they were both well built, with decent quality, and styling of course is merely down to personal preference. but then audi comes in to the fray with their impressive cars, but my question is this:

what does audi bring to the competition that isn't already there? you've got comfort, relaxation, driveability, excitement, quality and looks well covered. what does audi have to set it apart?

i know i'm about to be screamed at, people are going to tell my i'm wrong, but that's ok - i want to be proven wrong. please, someone tell me, without brand loyalty, what audi has to make them special. and don't say looks - looks are subjective; i happen to prefer any bangle car to any car mercedes or audi has produced - with the possible exceptions of the previous model SL and the R8.

someone said audi has a planted, secure feel - well, i say if you want to feel secure, go for the merc - a friend of mine who has an S class told me "it drives like a tank, and that's brilliant - it feels so much more planted than a bmw".

sorry to bleat on, but please, someone prove me wrong! =)

A survey done last year about who students want to work for after grad showed that Audi beat BMW in Germany for the first time to take no.1 - this was already a warning sign.

BMW needs to get young guys, teens to think that their cars are cool; for them to be able to put up BMW posters on their bedroom walls. But unfortunately, I don't think BMW is doing enough. BMW used to give out free posters, they have also done away with that in order to cut costs!!! I don;t see BMWs in movies any more. The most recent BMW models and rumours are stupid granny PAS cars and huge family X6, X1 4X4, Mini E... From Audi??? R8, S3, RS4, A5 and a host of concept cars that will make people feel attracted to the brand.

Seriously, BMW is falling down my scale for fashionable cars, Audi on the contrary is coming up. I will always buy a BMW, but this unpleasant trend is the result of a company that focuses too much on profitability and forgets what made BMW successful in the first place.

These are aspirational products, if I don't aspire to have one, you hae failed...let this be a wake up call for that chairman of BMW, who is forever trying to please its shareholders and failing to take note of the damage Audi is doing to BMW! It is a joke that he still publically says that Audi is not a threat

and bavarian MS, i disagree. i'd say roger and marm0lade are about equal.

I am very interested how you can claim that Audi has the edge over BMW in every class. Even from a completely unbiased view, this seems a very one-sided, almost fanboy-ish angle to come from. Although it has to be said that it seems I have not had the same experience as you in owning a car from every generation made, but I can comment on the 3 Series (namely 325i Coupe) and the Mk.II Audi TT (3.2 DSG), which I drove around the Nordschleife last summer. This so called racing heritage you talk of was definitely apparent in the Audi, with its firm set up, great engine and superb gearbox. Now it must be said I am far from a test track, racing legend but I was lucky enough to time myself in both cars. The Audi clocked a 9:50.46 and the 325i M Sport, a 9:39.31.

You can call this fluke, luck, amateurish, whatever but I found the 3 to be a whole level above that of the TT. The turn in was so much more sharper, so much more light footed, the engine although a good 30bhp down on the TT seemed equally quick. And that 'chuck-ability' the BMW has is certainly not matched by the TT's haldex system. This is why you see, I have such a problem with your above statement. I suggest you drive an X5 around a track as well; very surprising! It seems you have taken a bunch of brochure facts and thrown them together to form an argument. Again, but for all I know you could be a racing legend!!

Audi definitely deserve their limelight, in motor racing and car production but to write a large statement like yours without even showing a smidgen of praise to the other marque the sounds like THE MOST 'fanatical' argument on here.

Sorry to drag on :)

A point I should make is that when I did my first few laps around the track, the TT did seem more capable than the 325i. The fact I had 4wd under me inspired more confidence in my driving, coupled with the DSG (opposed to manual tran on the 325i), it seemed I could concentrate more on my driving.

It was on my final set of laps that I got the hang of how to properly drive the BMW manual transmission on a track, after which it became a 2nd nature to me thus alowing me to take more risks on corners. The major difference between the cars was the ability to change direction quickly in the 3 series, especially on the twisty bits of the 'Ring.

The speed I would go into a corner with the BMW I found could not be matched in the Audi. When I attempted a similar entry speed in the TT i had to turn the wheel a lot more to achieve the same angle of turn, by which time the 4wd system would send 60% to the rear (albeit too slowly) however losing speed in the process. This coupled to over 100 corners results in the surprising, yet inevitable lap times.

Secretly I love the TT, the design is undoubtedly well proportioned. To me it exudes true german class and efficiency. But although it is a big step from the Mk.1 TT in terms of performance and handling, it still has a way to go to compete with the likes of a 3 series. I know that sounds very brash and naive, but it is all from my own experience. Note the TT's direct rival is actually the Z4, which I read is more of a drivers car than nearly all of BMW's range.

Phew! :)

Im srry, but... the 3 series is just the perfect entry level sedan, and tht means alot comming frm me, cause i am a Benz nut.

If BMW keeps on it's superior quality (and yes, I do believe that the 3 Series is a more solid car, much better built, interior and ext, especially the interior, than the A4), people are going to go back to BMW after their experience with Audi. Yes, the A4 is a nice car, it's beyond expectation from an Audi. But like so many reports have said, it is just not as good as the 3 Series in terms of handling, quality, techno advancements, performance and fuel efficiency.

If nothing else I hope this inspires BMW to return to the ways that made an entire fan base that feels they have been forgotten, fall in love with BMW in the first place!

If Audi's were so good and advertising their front wheel drive as better cars, why not race with their normal fwd cars without quattro in SA? Well, Icannot figure this out, the only conclusion I can make from this is that hey want to cheat their way to the top, using AWD while the rest of the field uses 2 wheels to propel

Design is what helped GM overtake Ford in the early 20th century and if things don't change I won't be surprised if history repeats itself. Bangle apparently excused his designs by saying that his designs don't look that good on paper but look good in metal, well Audi's look good on paper and look superb in metal.

And excuse me if I'm mistaken but wasn't the Merc called the "silver-arrow" and not the Auto Unions (CaymanRS)? From what I know Merc had to strip the paint on their race car at the last minute to qualify on a weight basis.

Oh my! The R8 is so sexy! I want one!!!

RS4 is faster on the ring even the M6. Look to the fact. But in real life BMW has nothing to do with quatro it is truth.

Also the matter of fact that German car drivers prefer Audi in those mentioned above segments.

and of course the rs4 would beat an m6 around a track. the m6 is a big, long wheelbase gt car.

there really is no point comparing any audi to any bmw, because they're never released at the same time. it's more interesting to compare a merc to a bmw.

R8 aside, all Audi's are just a response to a BMW product.

oh n for everyones info merc still has its own sl65 and zonda among the toppers followed by the e46 m3 csl still the leader among recent bmws and audis.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/other-cars/356005-nurburgring-all-time-production-car-lap-records.html

it's interesting how the fans of bmw and audi can hate eachother so very much, but as soon as someone mentions the phrase "nissan GT-R" they immediately unite to hate the japanese auto-makers together. it's fun to watch!

2 years later than the RS4, BMW produce the M3 which is still slower, lol

enough said...