BMW 7 Series Hybrid and X6 Hybrid confirmed for 2009 release

BMW Concept 7 Series ActiveHybrid

BMW will produce hybrid versions of the BMW 7 Series and the BMW X6 with sales expected to begin by the end of 2009. BMW Sales and Marketing Director Ian Robertson confirmed the report during talks with journalists at the Detroit Auto Show.

Robertson, the former CEO of Rolls-Royce, told journos that the two vehicles would use diffent hybrid systems. The luxury sedan 7-series would make use of a mild hybrid, allowing the engine to be shut down when coasting or braking. Accessories would still run with the engine shut down, making use of an electric motor. Meanwhile, the X6 Sport Activity Vehicle would be paired with a full-hybrid system, letting the SAV run on pure electric power or using a combination of its internal combustible engine and a larger electric motor to power the vehicle.

Concept versions of the two vehicles are on display at the North American International Auto Show. The BMW Concept 7 Series ActiveHybrid is based on the 2009 model year, and runs on a 4.4-liter twin-turbo V8 paired to a 20hp electric motor that generates an impressive 155 ft-lb of torque on its own. The V8 already generates 400 hp, and 450 ft-lb of torque, but the added power from the electrics will help cut fuel consumption by 15%. Energy for the electrics would be kept in a lithium-ion battery mounted in the vehicle's boot. Regenerative brakes also send energy back to the battery pack.

Fewer details of the BMW Concept X6 ActiveHybrid have been released, but the German automaker has said the concept would get 20% better fuel economy than similar V8 vehicles. The X6 hybrid concept was likely drawn up with the same 4.4 liter V8 as the 7-series hybrid concept.

As these two vehicles are concepts, their will likely be some changes to mechanics and detailing before they get to the showroom. But do expect to see the BMW 7 Series Hybrid and the BMW X6 Hybrid in dealerships soon.

As Robertson said, "they will probably be available to our customers by the end of the year.”

Source: examiner.com

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Bristol411S3

So the 7-series isn't a hybrid at all. Why are they doing this on big cars? It is only guilt that drives the need at that end of the market. It's more needed on the 3-series.

January 16, 2009 6:59 pm

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1 reply

Motor_Yakuza

Just marketing.

January 16, 2009 7:22 pm

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caraddicted

maybe it's not the time to unleash a 3-series hybrid maybe because the hybrid system is highpriced so they gave the x6 and the 7 as a biginning, if those two will end with success i think they will put hybridsystem in other series

January 16, 2009 8:20 pm

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2 replies

djcocum

I think diesel versions make still more sense in this kind of cars. A hybrid version of the 3 series would not be as quick and as fuel efficient as an hybrid version

January 20, 2009 8:44 am

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djcocum

I mean, as a diesel version is still more efficient and cheaper to produce than an hybrid one

January 20, 2009 8:45 am

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Joe_Limon

I am glad to see they gave up on their 7 series hydrogen car... waste of time and money that thing was.

January 16, 2009 9:25 pm

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11 replies

TSLi

I disagree with you there. Its only a matter of time before the need to ration petrol and diesel becomes a reality. When that happens I'd rather drive a car that feels and sounds like a combustion engine, than to have a car which I can drive for 5 hours at a time after charging it for 16 hours. I feel the fact that BMW can say they were one of the first to produce a fully hydrogen powered car, commands a high respect amongst other car makers. Gives customers a sense that BMW is brand that will most likely still be here in the future.

January 16, 2009 9:55 pm

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Joe_Limon

omg really? they burn it? wow shit, uhm ya that=extra fail. The most efficient way you can make a hydrogen powered vehicle is with fuel cells. The most efficient you can make a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle is about 40% from tank to wheel. That and you have to make hydrogen... which is at best a 70% efficient process. Overall giving you about 28% efficiency, in a best case scenario. Unfortunately, the best way to store it so you can run more then 20miles per tank is as a liquid. This sucks down the efficiency of a hydrogen vehicle even further. Lets say a best case scenario after storage issues is 25% (I am being very generous) it would require you to consume 4 times the energy compared to a similarly powered gasoline or diesel engine. Now say you do bmw's barbaric burn it in a cylinder approach... and you would probably get a good... 5-10% max efficiency?

January 17, 2009 12:29 am

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Joe_Limon

if you don't believe me, have a look at this report. http://www.efcf.com/reports/E04.pdf

January 17, 2009 12:31 am

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lucifa

hang on, four times as much energy to produce the same amount of power as gasoline/diesel? you've been had, son. what you're saying implies that gasoline burns at 100% efficiency. no way in all h*ll, mate. if a gasoline engine was 100% efficient, there would be no need for any form of engine cooling, and no need for exhaust systems to quieten the engine, because the engine would produce neither heat nor sound, as 100% of the energy would be kinetic. gasoline engines are actually closer to (i think?) 15% efficient, so a hydrogen fuel cell is a far more efficient way of producing power than gasoline. bmw's hydrogen engine was mainly a marketing trick, really. one of the world's most successful luxury car manufacturers couldn't overlook something that you would have learned back in high school chemistry, which is that, per volume, elemental hydrogen has less hydrogen atoms than gasoline, which makes it far less reactive in oxygen. the only way to make elemental hydrogen more reactive would be to burn it in pure fluorine, which is ridiculously expensive for use in a car.

January 17, 2009 2:56 am

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Joe_Limon

No I am not saying that gasoline is 100% efficient, you are overlooking the fact that hydrogen requires power plants and they in themselves will be originally burning fossil fuels at not 100% efficiency. If you had gasoline engines producing power, it would take 4 gasoline engines to provide for 1 hydrogen car... while I admit that power plants are a more efficient then automotive engines, that does not negate the fact that the rest of the numbers I used were very biased ideal case scenarios.

January 17, 2009 3:22 am

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Joe_Limon

also, if you took university chemistry on top of your high school chemistry you would realize that hydrogen is much more "reactive" then gasoline and can burn in a far far greater range of air fuel mixtures. That being said you are right, it isn't a very energy dense fuel. It also requires a chemical to mechanical to electrical to chemical to electrical to mechanical energy transfer path... losing energy in each transfer.

January 17, 2009 3:26 am

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lucifa

sorry, reactive was the wrong term - what i meant was that the energy released from the breaking of the gasoline molecule (enthalpy difference) is far greater than that of the breaking of elemental hydrogen, owing to the difference in the number and nature of the bonds. and yes it does require many energy changes, but for the raw fuel usage the fuel cell process is still more efficient than internal combustion of gasoline. as for the production of the fuel, i think hydrogen for use in engines is produced by electrolysis of water, which does use a fairly large amount of energy per product. however, the refining of crude oil into the higher alkanes (gasoline etc) requires large amounts of energy, too. true, at the moment the process is probably more efficient than the process of producing hyrdogen, but i'd hazard a guess that that is because the process of oil refining has been (for lack of a better word) refined over the many years it has been used. given the same amount of time, i would believe that the process of aquiring hydrogen could be refined to a point where it is more efficient than oil refining, because it uses electrolysis, which is potentially a more efficient process than refining through heat. as for the 4 engines to power one thing, i think i may have misread the first time - i read it as hydrogen engines are only 25% efficient, so in order to get the same amount of energy as a gasoline engine would take four engines, hence my thinking you were saying that gasoline is 100% efficient.

January 17, 2009 5:46 am

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TSLi

joe_limon, I dont see why exactly you are arguing into such depth with my comment. I was merely disagreeing with your statement about the hydrogen powered 7 being a waste of time and money. As I said before, I saw that car as a great milestone for BMW, being a car company for the future. Being the first of the german manufacturers to develop that engine is almost worth its weight in gold in terms of publicity. Even if the hydrogen 7 series was not the most viable project to be undertaken, it does not stop hydrogen being used for other purposes in cars, such as what Honda are doing with the Clarity. (i.e. Hydrogen to power electric motors) Oh, and as for that chemistry lesson you feel you had to give the users of WCF, I feel you may have gone and answered the question that nobody asked. Thanks.

January 17, 2009 1:52 pm

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Joe_Limon

to Lucifa. You don't seem to realize that the refining process is very efficient. True a 42 gallon drum may only make about 19.5 gallons of gasoline, but it makes many other byproducts as well that are used throughout industry. That and the refining process is self powered and or requires very little energy input (depending on the plant), to put it simply, you warm up the oil and it separates in a tower. You can't light a match and magically get hydrogen out of water.

January 17, 2009 3:03 pm

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lucifa

yeah okay i'll give you that, i'd forgotten about the by-products of refining crude oil. and yes, those in the industry have gotten the process down to being so efficient that very little of the energy is wasted, which is a fair accomplishment considering it's heat energy. however, electrolysis of water can, in theory, be self-sustaining, but nobody has yet managed to achieve that. give it a few decades and they might, but for now, you're right, refining crude oil is a less wasteful process. that being said, the hydrogen-powered engines - especially fuel cells - are definitely a good idea, because the world's supply of hydrogen is effectively unlimited. oh and TSLi - it is possible to base a discussion on scientific fact, instead of mere opinion. the question might not have been asked, but it sparked a more interesting debate than the usual brand-loyalty one. so please, the tone is not warranted considering the innocence of the offence.

January 17, 2009 11:52 pm

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TSLi

I'm always one for discussing everyones differing opinions on a certain thread. But not when I am responded to with such child-like satire.. why? Just because I disagreed with a comment? I just don't believe going into such technical detail was necessary from my first comment alone, and it came across to me that his response was more one to showboat, if anything. But who am I to put a stop to your discussion? In that case I am glad I could start such a intellectual conversation.

January 18, 2009 10:48 am

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BMWPrince

All in all, a prodiuction hydrogen car is not viable at the moment! BMW is wasting its time trying to invest money in R&D of such a concept because it is not going to work. 1.) With companies nowadays just copying the leader, why invest so much to come up with a product (in this case, building hydrogen network, hydrogen tanks, develop with other manufacturing companies) and then soon after launch, if product is successful, another car company just comes and steals the idea and copy without much investment? Look at iDrive, etc. 2.)BMW's strategy is now to boost profitability and cut costs, R&D of such nature should be cut as it will not bring a soon enough result for the company. Hybrid is the way to go in the mean time. 3.)If Hydrogen is the way to go, let someone else come up with the idea and set up networks. Why be a leader, take up all the starting risks and not gain all potential profits because you are certain other car companies will just copy whatever you come up with (like Audi)

January 17, 2009 5:56 am

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4 replies

lucifa

mate, i agree with you, it's not the most profitable way of doing it, but it gives enormous publicity and endears the company in the eye of the world. and btw, you are going to cop so much flak for saying audi is just a bmw/merc copycat. =P

January 17, 2009 8:53 am

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BMWPrince

I didn't say Audi is just a copy of Merc/BMW. But Audi tends to follow the leaders, it is obvious to many and many have said so as well. Just to give you some evidence just so that you guy don't think that Iam making a bias statement: BMW's iDrive , BMW's Efficient Dynamics elements, Merc's Park Assist, Roll Royce's LED headlights, BMW's light tube rear lights, BMW flame surface. Don't get me wrong, Audi is a very nice car company and they make good products, just that it doesn't seem like they come up with anything amazing except for the R8.

January 17, 2009 3:01 pm

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lucifa

don't worry, i agree with you. it's just people tend to get a bit edgy when you say something vaguely negative about merc, bmw, audi or the nissan GT-R

January 17, 2009 11:38 pm

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radmeister

Audi did it's part by perfecting/pioneering AWD. If you want to say somebody is copying Merc you must mean Lexus. Audi really focuses on 2 things, frame technology/safety, and awd. The rest i would say they are one of the best package assemblers. They put together a car that has everything that is good from everyone. Very rarely you get in an audi and feel that there is something missing. They are not very passionate cars, but for what they lack in character they make up in practicality.

January 19, 2009 10:49 pm

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car-o-bar

I own the current generation 7 and it easily gives me 18 in city and 24-26 on highways. That is not bad considering its size and weight. If HYBRID can further improve the EPA, there is no harm in it.

January 17, 2009 6:39 pm

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