Chevrolet Volt Li-ion battery packs to be manufactured by LG Chem

Chevrolet Volt with Li-ion battery - NAIAS 2009

by Thami Masemola
January 12, 2009 9:32 PM
Filed Under: American, Chevrolet, Electric Vehicle, General Motors, Technology

In June 2008 General Motors' board of directors approved the production of the Chevrolet Volt, possibly the most talked about electric battery powered car ever. Production of the Volt is set to begin in 2010. Central to the Volt's high-tech image is its battery pack which enables the vehicle to run for 40 miles on pure electricity.

A partner has been approved to manufacture the battery pack's lithium-ion battery cells, GM CEO Rick Wagoner announced at the 2009 Detroit Auto Show. LG Chem will supply these cells from which GM will build its batteries at a facility in the US. Although GM's facility is not ready yet, LG Chem subsidiary by the name of Compact Power Inc. will manufacture the batteries for Volt prototype cars. The University of Michigan has also been pulled in to provide a special course devoted to battery engineering.

"The design, development and production of advanced batteries must be a core competency for GM," said Wagoner, "and we've been rapidly building our capability and resources to support this direction. This is a further demonstration of our commitment to the electrification of the automobile and to the Chevrolet Volt - a commitment that now totals more than US$1 billion."

The 16 kWh T-shaped lithium-ion battery measures about 6ft long (1.8 metres) and weighs roughly 400 pounds (181 kg). The majority of future GM cars are expected to run on this technology within the next few years.

Source: GM
Press Release (Click to expand)

Chevrolet Volt Battery Packs Will Be Manufactured by General Motors in the United States

* GM will establish the first lithium-ion battery pack manufacturing facility in the United States operated by a major automaker
* LG Chem has been selected to supply the lithium-ion battery cells for the Chevrolet Volt
* Advanced battery strategy strengthens GM's capabilities to develop hybrid and electric vehicles
* GM will open a new automotive battery lab - the largest of its kind - in the United States to further strengthen design, development and testing capabilities
* A partnership with the University of Michigan has been established to develop a specialized curriculum for battery engineers

The Chevrolet Volt, an extended-range electric vehicle that delivers up to 40 miles of gasoline- and emissions-free electric driving, will use battery packs manufactured in the United States by General Motors, Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner announced at the North American International Auto Show.

GM will establish the first lithium-ion battery pack manufacturing facility operated by a major automaker in the United States to produce the Volt's battery pack system. It consists of lithium-ion cells that are grouped into modules, along with other key battery components.

The plant will be located in Michigan, subject to negotiations with state and local government authorities. Facility preparation will begin in early 2009, with production tooling to be installed mid-year and output starting in 2010.

"The design, development and production of advanced batteries must be a core competency for GM, and we've been rapidly building our capability and resources to support this direction," Wagoner said. "This is a further demonstration of our commitment to the electrification of the automobile and to the Chevrolet Volt - a commitment that now totals more than $1 billion."

The Volt's lithium-ion battery cells will be supplied by LG Chem. Compact Power Inc., a subsidiary of LG Chem based in Troy, Mich., will build battery packs for Volt prototype vehicles until GM's battery facility is operational. A joint engineering contract with Compact Power and LG Chem also has been signed to further expedite the development of the Volt's lithium-ion battery technology.

GM has been testing battery packs for the Volt, powered by cells from LG Chem, for the past 16 months. These tests - both on the road and in the lab - have provided invaluable insight into lithium-ion battery technology.

"Our selection of LG Chem was based on performance, production readiness, efficiency, durability and LG Chem's demonstrated track record of exceptional quality," Wagoner said. "At GM, we believe the technical strengths of LG Chem, combined with our own engineering and manufacturing expertise, will help position us as a key player in the development of electrically driven vehicles today and in the future."

GM's advanced battery strategy

"Our announcements are part of a comprehensive advanced battery strategy for GM that is expanding along two pathways," Wagoner said. "First, we're identifying core competencies - such as battery research, development and assembly - and integrating these fundamentals into our product development and manufacturing operations. We believe this will become a competitive advantage for GM, and will be critical to GM's long-term success. Secondly, we're building a roster of battery suppliers and academic experts from around the globe, and leveraging their specialized abilities to develop battery chemistries and cell designs, as well as future automotive battery engineers."

Key elements of GM's advanced battery strategy include:

* Opening the largest automotive battery lab in the United States (31,000 square feet / 3,251 square meters) that will be capable of testing new energy storage system technologies, as well as lithium-ion and nickel-metal hydride batteries, to accelerate the domestic development of advanced battery technology and lead GM's network of existing labs in Honeoye Falls, N.Y.; Warren, Mich.; Torrance, Calif.; and Mainz-Kastel, Germany. This new battery lab will be located in Michigan, subject to final negotiations with state and local authorities
* Continuing to ramp-up "in-house" battery-development capability by increasing the staff of GM's global hybrid, electric vehicle and advanced battery organization to several hundred engineers in 2009, including more than 200 currently dedicated to advanced battery technologies
* Joining with the University of Michigan to create a new automotive advanced battery lab in Ann Arbor, Mich., and a specialized curriculum within U of M's College of Engineering to develop automotive battery engineers
* Continuing to grow and establish a robust lineup of battery suppliers for cell development and manufacturing and battery integration expertise, with companies such as LG Chem, A123Systems, Hitachi Ltd., Compact Power and Cobasys
* Collaborating with government organizations and industry consortia, such as the U.S. Department of Energy; United States Council for Automotive Research; the United States Advanced Battery Consortium LLC; and Electric Power Research Institute to advance the development of hybrids, plug-ins and electric vehicles, and related electric infrastructure to support those vehicles

Energy alternatives and advanced technologies that reduce dependency on petroleum, improve fuel economy and reduce emissions are the keys to developing sustainable transportation. GM is pursuing several options to best meet the varied needs of customers around the world - from advanced gasoline, diesel and biofuel technology to electrically assisted vehicles such as hybrids, plug-in hybrids and - ultimately -electrically driven extended-range electric vehicles and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. GM believes that electrically driven vehicles, based on battery and hydrogen fuel cell technology, offer the best long-term solution for providing sustainable personal transportation.

In June 2008, the GM Board of Directors approved the Chevrolet Volt program and Voltec^TM propulsion system for production starting in late 2010. For trips of up to 40 miles, the Volt is powered by electricity from the grid and stored in its lithium-ion battery pack. Beyond 40 miles, a small engine-generator creates additional electricity to extend the range of the Volt several hundred additional miles. The development of the Volt's 16 kWh T-shaped lithium-ion battery, which is roughly 6 feet long (1.8 meters) and weighs nearly 400 pounds (181 kg), is key to the Volt's success. The production-intent design was revealed in September 2008.

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Comments

joshg_5

January 13, 2009 1:09 AM

With the amount of energy that is put into both the:

-manufacturing of the electricity in coal and oil burning plants

- manufacturing of batteries with chemicals and high amounts of energy.

Hardly any energy is saved. Just an extremely expensive way to work a car.

But i guess it gives people their "green" status which they desire oh so much...

Joe_Limon

January 13, 2009 1:46 AM

I agree on every one of your points. However, as technology improves, electric cars will only get cheaper, more efficient and more eco friendly. At least it's more efficient then hydrogen cars... they are a joke, I mean of course the whole supercooling and then super heating of hydrogen to get the best storage/efficiency. Not to mention how energy intensive it is to make hydrogen.

joshg_5

January 13, 2009 2:29 AM

Thank you.

Thank you very much, I'm very glad that there are other people out there with enough common sense to recognize the powers of marketing and greed.

And agreed, NOW, Hydrogen and its accompanying technology is pathetic. But, I believe that if the same amount of work, hype, and money was put into Hydrogen that has been poured (somewhat wastefully) into Hybrid, that Hydrogen would have evolved to a much higher level of efficiency and capability versus hybrid technology.

People think that hybrid cars are: - the way of the future...(false) - the way to go when there's no fossil fuels left (which there is and will be for further centuries) - can only make people lives better (if people really care about the world they should spend the extra 20% on saving poverty and clean mass energy in the 3rd world)

I HATE HYBRIDS! BAH!

super efficient diesels are the way to go until we can develop an ACTUAL "renewable" energy source.

mradem

January 13, 2009 5:37 AM

Care to share any numbers with us on how much coal and energy has been consumed making these compared with normal cars? You apparently have some inside information with us, maybe we can use it to compare the efficiency of these vehicles to regular gasoline vehicles and see if its worth it. Or maybe you were just talking out your ass!?

mradem

January 13, 2009 5:43 AM

BTW, we are working on a truly renewable source of energy. Hydrogen Fusion which we'll use to make... thats right ELECTRICY. Whatever method we use in the future its very likely we'll be creating electricity, whether we perfect hydrogen fusion, solar panels or something else. So to say we're wasting time developing electric and hybrid electric vehicles is pretty stupid.

Joe_Limon

January 13, 2009 6:12 AM

Really? I mean Really Really? The whole fusion idea has been tossed around for a few decades now. If you mean hydrogen fusion in the sense of hydrogen fuel cells, they can be used to generate power... only after you originally spent more power to make the hydrogen. That means it is great for remote power reserves off in the bush that you don't want to haul a big propane tank off to. But even then, I stand firmly against the whole having to super cool into liquid hydrogen, keep it cool, and then super heat it to about 700+ celcius just so it will do it's little reaction at 80% efficiency instead of 60%

joshg_5

January 13, 2009 7:38 AM

I have a Major in Geology actually. I also have close association with the oil business, it's in my family.

I support change, but not the way it's happening. Because the way it's happening is for profit, this is a capitalist society after all. always keep that in mind when you see the word "green"...

And Hydrogen is a failure, at least until we can find a way to make it without putting more energy in than we get out.

There's two solutions, both currently under heavy research in Europe, and not surprisingly not in the Americas. - Nuclear Fusion (unlimited energy) unfortunately we're at least 100 years away from this.

- Nuclear Fission US is "afraid of it"... EU and Asia are employing it heavily.

at the end of the day, Nuclear anything is good.

And do you actually think that even a few million hybrids on the roads of America is going to offset the expulsion of Carbon-emissions in developing Asia, where there's a several new coal plants every month?!?!

You'd have to be nuts.

Good job Toyota, you've done a good job convincing people like mradem that hybrid tech is the way of the future...

- Nuclea

mradem

January 13, 2009 7:45 AM

hydrogen fusion being 100 years away is definitely an opinion, not a fact, not even a popular opinion at that

joshg_5

January 13, 2009 5:29 PM

Yes, actually it is a fact that we're at least a hundred years away from enough LARGE SCALE INFRASTRUCTURE to supply it, enough MONEY to to that and to produce it in LARGE SCALE QUANTITIES OF PRODUCTION. Plus, There's too much money to be made by big oil companies for the next half to whole decade to forgo oil sales. It just won't happen.

Prove to me that CERN's Large Hardon Collider has achieved either of those things. It didn't. It's a great step in the right direction, but it needs time, and a lot of it. Right now, it is just a HUGE bill for the EU.

Joe_Limon

January 13, 2009 1:59 AM

Due to the cooling trend found throughout North America that has happened since the conception and sale of hundreds of thousands of Prius's to celebrities and greenies alike. I say we all buy fuel pigs with horrible emission ratings to help counteract the cooling trend. That or just generally agree that these cars solve only one problem in the world, they allow us to spend less after buying an depreciating asset.

avanthomme

January 13, 2009 6:47 AM

seriously?

Joe_Limon

January 13, 2009 8:29 AM

Yes and No. I hold this opinion in pure spite against everyone who thinks we are dooming the planet. I also happen to believe that the little kids who believe that their parents fight and divorce is entirely their fault grow up to be environmentalists hell bent in believing that our actions are causing the earth do go down the drain no matter which way the signs seem to point.

radmeister

January 13, 2009 3:31 PM

Hold up do you actually think global warming means it gets hotter? It does both, makes it cold and hot depending on the flow of the gases in the atmosphere and where they are hovering over. Few years ago we had +12 in December and they had snow in Greece and Delhi.

Joe_Limon

January 13, 2009 9:48 PM

One incident radmeister does not prove the entire world is going down the shitter, heck if anything the 20th century has been that of miraculous climate stability compared to the rest of history. Also, forgive my not realizing that "warming" doesn't mean getting warmer :P

Joe_Limon

January 13, 2009 9:49 PM

it's just like how your one GM car doesn't prove the entire American car market is shit. But I guess you wouldn't know that and love jumping to conclusions.

avanthomme

January 13, 2009 6:46 AM

actually, i agree w/ many of you, but i think it's important to continue our evolution in the direction that will support sustainable living. we pay more now, but benefit much more in the long-haul. we have much to lose by failing to develop newer, energy efficient technologies. i'm proud of G.M., an American company launching into such a commitment with god-speed. i just hope it lives up to the hype and delivers a vehicle that makes U.S. cars desirable! p.s. what a fine looking car.

mradem

January 13, 2009 7:30 AM

I was talking about hydrogen fusion as I stated. Almost every major country is investing in it as well as many small start ups. At any rate, care to comment on the rest of my post? Do you have any numbers or were you blowing smoke out of your ass? Do you disagree that whatever technological breakthrough we develop will likely be used to generate electricity and therefor provide energy to electric and hybrid electric vehicles?

Joe_Limon

January 13, 2009 8:27 AM

Well, I have heard that Wind farms create more energy to make then they will ever get out of them. It makes sense to as the only people making them are oil companies so that they look greener. Even though joshg_5 doesn't state any numbers, I believe him. Batteries are extremely toxic and expensive to manufacture, not to mention that the average hybrid battery only lasts 5 years before it needs to be replaced.

joshg_5

January 13, 2009 5:38 PM

My apologies, i my original post, I more-so meant emphasize the fact the *just as much POLLUTION IS CREATED with the entire battery production process and repetitive charging process. Maybe not as much energy. But, in markets where electric cars will be used, we have plentiful energy to supply them as well.

mradem

January 13, 2009 10:19 PM

So to summarize for you... because the use of electricity in cars is not yet as efficient as gasoline, we shouldn't make an effort. Lets just all give in to the oil companies and politicians because they're just to big and powerful to stop. Holy Shit! wake up, you all sound like a bunch of whining 2 year olds. Big companies and small start-ups are making amazing breakthroughs in technology right now and its very likely that we'll be powering our cars efficiently with electricity in the next decade. WTF is wrong with trying? Breakthroughs in how we produce, store and transport electricity are occurring very rapidly right now and all you people can do is put someone down for making progress. I like the comment too about just waiting until we find a real source of renewable energy. Like its going to be some magical substance that we pull out of our asses or something. I hope you guys understood my point, I tried to keep it positive but man... I just don't see anything getting through to you. OH btw, you don't need a new infrastructure to transport electricity just because you're using hydrogen fusion to create it J.A.

joshg_5

January 14, 2009 6:50 PM

2-year olds?

We're debating here, you're acting quite immature...

As I said, I APPROVE of change. But only if it's in the right direction ie: Nuclear fission, and fusion.

What you must admit is that Hybrid and biofuel technology is no more sustainable in the long-long run than are fossil fuels. And neither is electric if we don't have a sustainable source to supply those cars with the energy (ie nuclear fusion, fission)

mradem

January 15, 2009 3:51 AM

joshg_5, just read through one of your posts again... do you really think we're still waiting for the tech to create electricity with fission? hahahaha

radmeister

January 13, 2009 9:51 PM

400lbs and only gets 40miles, 16KWh????? Assuming that it follows the same basic rules as all other Li-ion batteries that means that the battery should have 27.216kw-hours. This has to be made out of recycled products because even an nimh battery has for that weight 18KWh of course that would be a high grade nimh battery and most average for that weight 12KWh. Either way something is off here, and that's why i wouldn't touch a GM electric car.

mradem

January 13, 2009 10:26 PM

GM is bringing one of the first plug in hybrids to market that will allow most people to do their daily driving without a drop of gas and get well over 50 miles per gallon when they do start to burn gas and all you can do is complain about it.

radmeister

January 14, 2009 5:28 AM

Ok dude seems like you dont know much, let's say that you negate the emissions made during the production of the battery. Lets say the battery is as they claim only 16kwh, thats 1.23$/40 miles 1 gallon = 1.78$, that's the equivalent of 57mpg. Not that amazing if you ask me, also a 16kwh generator is the same size as this thing's engine, lets say that a power plant makes the power 40% more efficient that is still a decent ammount of emissions to create your electric 40miles. On a long trip this thing wouldnt be more cost effective or practical than a Golf TDI. So take that as you will, but this car is a failure before it is even launched, only rookies like yourself will buy this car and expect a miracle, the fact is even running on electricity this thing is not much cheaper than a Diesel. Ontop of that its marginally better if anything at all for 40miles...What a joke of a car.

Joe_Limon

January 14, 2009 7:48 AM

40 miles is a lot Radmeister, I pity you if you have to travel more then that everyday.

radmeister

January 14, 2009 2:30 PM

40 miles is 64km which is 1 way to Toronto from my city, it's not too far, i mean thats a 30min commute giving there is no traffic and you can average 120 on the hwy. In the summer i go to Wasaga beach which is about 200km each way from me, in the fall i go fishing for trout at some rivers, again roughly 200km each way. I put about 20,000km/year on my car just for recreation, i don't drive into work. Most people in my part of canada drive more than 40 miles per day, that's like not even really considered as a commute. We will see how successful this car will be, mathematically and practically it's not very successful already. I mean it's not much more fuel efficient than a diesel, yet costs 10,000$ more than a fully loaded Jetta TDI, and ontop of that it's American, i see no good reason to buy this car.

joshg_5

January 14, 2009 6:59 PM

Ramstein, I'm really interested in your quote "16kwh, thats 1.23$/40 miles 1 gallon = 1.78$,".

Is that true? unbelievable... you see people. Companies will charge for power wherever you get if from. In this case, just because you don't have an exhaust out of the back of your car doesn't mean there isn't a mass one at a coal plant in the suburbs of your city.

Sorry optimists, but NOW, in most cases, out of site is NOT out of mind.

radmeister

January 15, 2009 2:31 PM

yeah, 1.23$ in ontario where our electricity is dirt cheap, i couldn't find prices for lets say california where i would assume most of these cars will be going, i would assume electricity is more expensive than 0.0769$/kwh there. That was more for a rough comparison, in the best case scenario it's the same as a car running on gas averaging 57mpg....Perhaps in cali that figure would be closer to 50mpg or less. If anyone can find out the price per kwh in cali do up the calculation and let us know.

Czechmate

January 13, 2009 10:49 PM

Mradem, what everyone who hasnt been brain washed by AL gore is saying, is that the technology of "environmentally friendly" cars at the moment is less efficient and more polluting then the "gas guzzlers" on the road today. No one said give up on making it better but we are saying to put these cars on the road now is making it worse. dont do it by trial and error refine the technology first then release it to the general public. Maybe its you who is not getting it

mradem

January 14, 2009 5:42 AM

Oh okay, I get it now... So you guys want someone to totally eat the costs of developing and perfecting the electric car and/or electric hybrid without bringing any products to market and trying to recoup costs along the way. At least now I know I'm arguing with the people working on the production line at the hummer factory and it all makes sense. Actually, I'm probably insulting factory workers, you guys probably just empty their trash cans. Unbelievable. Hilarious insinuation of me being brainwashed by Al Gore when I think the guy is a complete Jack Ass. And by the way I will be in line to buy one because I'd rather send as little money to Countries that hate the US as possible. I'd pay twice as much for energy if it was 100% produced here but thats a totally different topic.

radmeister

January 14, 2009 2:46 PM

Ah you have to love blind patriotism. Too bad this "first" plug in hybrid is a pathetic attempt, as i stated the battery is of low quality, it's a GM so i wouldn't expect the rest of the car to be built amazingly. Ontop of that you add the fact that even if this battery was the best grade battery it wouldn't last longer than 7 years. So you are paying 40,000$ for a battery powered cobalt which in a perfect environment would last 7 years. It's a good thing the US has blind people like you to buy their sub-par products, they just have make sure they don't put people like you in positions of power again, learn from the mistake of electing Bush, and of how well the CEOs of Ford/GM/Chrysler performed. Especially people that judge others by what job they have....Enstein was a secretary basically before he got started. Im sure other renown people have been janitors at some point in their life. There is a reason why people dislike the US, it is justified. The good thing is it's something that can be changed over a short period of time, you just have to change your mentality of being superior to everyone without any real proof of it.

Czechmate

January 14, 2009 10:26 AM

haha take out the trash... that was cute hope you didnt lose too much sleep coming up with that one. Now instead of making people pay out the ass for hybrids to compensate the cost of "development" why not release a wide variety of super efficient 1.1-1.8 litre gas and diesels vehicles which people would buy anyway while they made a car that was truly powered by a renewable energy source. And what are you talking about giving money to countries that hate the U.S.... you are cornered and faced with the facts that hybrids are a horrible waste of time and now you are resorting to ranting about nothing and insulting everyone else for having a different opinion. Give up buddy nobody here is with you.

mradem

January 15, 2009 2:52 AM

Thanks for the advice but I don't think I'll give up on my point just because you guys do not agree. Anyone disprove these points: 1. There are hundreds (at least) of companies and organizations working on technology to create/harness/store electricity more efficiently. 2. The break throughs that these companies come up with will be directly applicable to full electric and electric hybrid cars. 3. GM/Ford/Toyota/Mini/Tesla (I'm forgetting some) have teams of people who's job it is to know more about this stuff than anyone commenting here and they've all decided to invest billions and some of them are even banking their companies future on electric and electric hybrids (hybrid more for the transition until electric alone will suffice)

joshg_5

January 14, 2009 7:09 PM

Question:

Do you (everybody) believe that 3.2-4.0 litre hybrid full-size cars and SUV's are really achieving anything?

No. They're not. If those people who bought them really cared about the environment (which they don't - they only care that people around them know they drive a "hybrid") they would purchase small output engines.

That would push demand to a European style market. everybody running around in what they need: 1.3,1.6 litre compacts.

But the fact is, American's are spoiled, that's the way their society is established, and that's the reason they're the "greatest country in the world".

America will be the last to change. besides, it's already 8-10 years behind the rest of the world in efficiency of that manner.

And another difference between Americans and the rest of the world:

- American's care about the environment because they care about themselves and what people think of oneself, and they also like the $$$ attainable in this new market.

- Remained of world cares about the world, and is sensible about how they go about doing it.

you don't see hybrids suddenly flooding the streets of Europe now. Why? because they've already been working in that direction for decades with small output diesel engines.

mradem

January 15, 2009 2:59 AM

Nice generalization about Americans. There's a sign of an intelligent person. You don't see the streets of Europe flooded with hybrids just like you don't see the street of the US flooded with them either. There are however plenty of European companies developing hybrids. You ever think the maturity of diesels in Europe has anything to do with the gas prices being higher for such a long time and not necessarily they care about the world so much more?

joshg_5

January 15, 2009 8:32 AM

Buddy. don't get so offended so easily. It should almost be a compliment about Americans what I said. You didn't even argue any of my points. The only one you touched on was inaccurate because yes, the streets of America are beginning to be flooded with Hybrids. In Cali they have HOV lanes dedicated to them!!

And what you say about the Diesel in Europe. You're absolutely right. You just proved my point. They are not focusing on such a "fadulous" idea such as Hybrids, because what's more important to them is the most cost efficient way, with gas at $10 a gallon, who wouldn't be!

Europeans are on the right track. You'd be hard pressed to find a dozen E500's in Germany like you do in the Americas. There, they have just as many E's, but they're E180's and such.

PS, when I say America, I'm including Canada. And I'm a Canadian. (zero patriotic bias because I'm not patriotic.)

mradem

January 15, 2009 7:09 PM

California has carpool lanes that hybrids are also aloud in for one. You didn't understand my point about Europe having more diesels. They've had much higher gas prices for much longer. Diesel was the only alternative before and thats why they've evolved the diesel engine into what it is today. Now that the breakthroughs in batteries are starting they're all looking into it if not already creating electric and eletric hybrids. Hell, even AMG is looking into hybrids these days. Even smart is coming out with an electric car and smart cars are all over Europe. I didn't touch on most of your points in that last post because they are based on bias, just because you've included your own Country in your bias doesn't make it better. While we're on the topic of responding to points. When did you touch on any of these: 1. There are hundreds (at least) of companies and organizations working on technology to create/harness/store electricity more efficiently. 2. The break throughs that these companies come up with will be directly applicable to full electric and electric hybrid cars. 3. GM/Ford/Toyota/Mini/Tesla (I'm forgetting some) have teams of people who's job it is to know more about this stuff than anyone commenting here and they've all decided to invest billions and some of them are even banking their companies future on electric and electric hybrids (hybrid more for the transition until electric alone will suffice)

Czechmate

January 15, 2009 10:09 PM

key words are "even AMG is looking into hybrids these days". the difference is that Mercedes and AMG and probably BMW Audi Volkswagon and many others i am sure are all "looking" into this technology, compared to toyoto just making an eye sore that is hugely over priced and not refined to the point where it is any better in terms of pollution than most cars on the road today. And when i say it is not any better i am talking about the energy and toxic chemicals that go into making hybrids. If or when Mercedes ever makes a hybrid or fully electric car you can be sure that it will be near perfect compared to the far from perfect hybrids on the roads today. the production of the car will be 100% environmentally friendly and the emissions will be next to nothing, but since mercedes has not found a way to achieve this yet they haven't made a hybrid, they are still researching and developing one. What all the companies who are making hybrids today are doing is bad. They are appealing to a small group of people who want to "make it better" and will pay almost anything to have hybrid written on their car. Its a status symbol and if any of these people knew the horrible truth about hybrids today would probably sell their cars.

mradem

January 15, 2009 11:05 PM

Sorry to rain on your parade of stupidity but the parent company of Mercedes Benz is bringing an electric smart car to market this year... for an estimated 50k! I suppose you think they've already perfected it now?

Also, does anyone have any numbers at all on how much pollution/energy goes into making these batteries to compare with how much goes into a normal car? I keep seeing a lot of bashing with no facts.

mradem

January 15, 2009 11:17 PM

BTW, for anyone on here that thinks I'm a tree hugging hippie or use blind patriotism to decide on my purchases... I currently drive a cls 55 with 600 hp and have a gl450 and sl500. I'm just happy to see all these companies finally responding to the environmental need, the global oil mess and gas prices and I'm excited to see what's next.

joshg_5

January 16, 2009 3:25 AM

This will be my last post on this thread. It's getting tiresome...

One comment and one question:

- no offense, but I find what you say about your garage hard to believe.

- How does one consider it progress when the Camry Hybrid is getting 34MPG/HWY, and the Camry I-4 is getting 31MPG/HWY...? That's pathetic. Just pathetic.

(*information from fueleconomy.gov*)

mradem

January 16, 2009 3:58 AM

I'm not surprised that you'd find a garage like mine hard to believe. Nice personal digg and irrelevant point and avoidance of everything I just said.

My last post too, Peace

joshg_5

January 17, 2009 12:59 AM

I didn't mean for it to be a "personal digg", please don't be offended. Besides, if it's true, you should be laughing at me.

But what my entire argument on this thread is about revolves around this question:

- How does one consider it progress when the Camry Hybrid is getting 34MPG/HWY, and the Camry I-4 is getting 31MPG/HWY...? That's pathetic. Just pathetic.

(*information from fueleconomy.gov*)

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