$15 Billion Dollar Bailout Agreement Reached

none of them provide bad products. as you may have noticed euro companies are struggling too. and please keep your jelousy away. they have jets and such because they are successful. its their personal lives which they earned. not the business. you do not understand how business and accountancy works if you make amature comments like that. so just because you havnt reached that high of a level in your life keep the envy inside and dont bring bad energy to a page for car fans. if you dislike them or cars so much go on a caravaning page or something. and learn before making such crude comments.

Don?t think jealousy has anything to do with it. Nor do I believe if Toyota has any private jets? Well, if you cannot afford it, it is common sense NOT to have it! Perhaps that?s the problem with the Big 3 Management ? a lack thereof of common sense! You may find this interesting: (15 -30 secs) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7740949.stm

US auto makers are ot suffering, they are very gravely ill. European auto makers are still in good financial health, able to ride out this recession. The fundamental problem in the US IS BAD PRODUCTS. The only reason Americans protest they are not, is because they never leave their own country, and never take an interest in European cars. They regard anything less than a V6 inferior, some will settle for nothing less than a V8. They value quantity over quality, and chrome over substance, and cubic inches over efficiency. Poor quality, inefficient, homogenous products which all look and feel the same, built down to a price, to every last cent. All because its American

So you guys want the CEO of one of the biggest corporations in the world to fly southwest business class? for some reason i dont see that happening....

Richard Branson does...! and many others do. You mean biggest LOSS making corporations in the world!

There not in the shape that they are in because of their private planes. Really people? Stop arguing dumb points. The only problem GM and Ford have now is changing ignorant peoples opinions about their products which I'm am sad to same is the vast majority of the population. This ignorance has got to stop. Stop judging by the past and start judging by the present and the future.

all the american cars(except euro ford) are shi*t and the fact is every bad automakers has to be eliminated sometime, and this is the time for these 3, especially Chrysler.

Oops, that post has oddly gone into the wrong thread...

Not just welfair, but what about the 7% unemployed. It could have been given to small businesses. it could have been given to the american people as a stimulus. What about giving it to Zoos, they have been in trouble for a while too.... BUT NOT THE SMALL 3. bottom line there are other things to spend money on then a failing US auto industry.

I totally agree. They have been selling cheap low quality crap on wheels with contempt for the average buyer who could discern the huge gap in respect not only to their japanese counterparts, but most ironically, to their very own eurobrands (Opel/Vauxhall, Ford EU).

All Ford has to do, is to bring the NEW Euro Ford Mondeo COMPLETELY UNCHANGED from Europe, stick "Taurus" badges on it, and it'll probably slaughter anything from Japan. Trouble is the cost of building it in Europe may be more than what they could sell it for in the low-cost US market.

The only reason many people think Ford will fold is because the media lumps the Big 3 together. Ford is asking for a standby credit line which they will only access if the other 2 carmakers go down, this can cause a chain reaction because the Big 3 share many parts suppliers. (this means that Ford's current plans can push through even without the bailout money) GM and Chrysler on the other hand need the bailout money ASAP because the money they have is only good till the end of the month.

..then again: 10 x nothing = nothing! :)

I don't think going with indians is the best thing, they are not an IT company. I would go with Germans or Japs, their salary is irrelevant, even if they get paid 10 million / year that's a small % of the income of GM when it was successful. As long as they re-structure it to meet today's standards.

What do you mean they aren't making crap products? The only thing keeping them alive is some national pride, but that fades fast if the onslaught of crap keeps coming out of their factories. Also, contrary to what you may have heard, the US is not the world. Sales in the US alone do not reflect a company's profit. I don't hear of Porsche losing 2 billion $/month, or VW. Sure they won't be making 10 billion $/quarter but they most definitely wont be going -7. Either way figure out how long this will keep them afloat, 15 billion /3 is 5 billion each, for GM that means 2 months if things keep going as is, and i think this quarter will be the worst. They wont last till march the end of march. And then what???? The Volt?? That is going to get killed by the new Insight, what's coming from ford? a new Mustang??? Chrysler has nothing... So what did any of this resolve? NOTHING! Same crap coming out of their factories, union got screwed over for something that isn't their fault, and the CEOs still have their jets and multi million $ mansions. Chrysler and GM will merge to create a bigger pile of crap which will help them only at getting a bigger loan due to more equity, and Ford will sell off as much as it can. I will buy something from the VW group next because Germany is never going to disappear, and i strongly believe they will come out the strongest from this crysis, with their minimalist and simple thought process and attention to detail. Japan will follow them closely. US is screwed, their empire was bound to crumble, and it has started to.

Radmeister. I have argued with you on the past about this many times. You have never successfully rebutted any of my arguments. All of your statements are based off of pure speculation, and your "experience" with one saab. Could I condemn the entire european auto market because bmw has had some horrible reliability issues with some of their cars? Read a book, not everyone can afford luxury, the average middle class American cannot afford an R8 like you have stated that you believe. If they could afford luxury cars, they wouldn't be luxury anymore, because everyone would have it. IMO Audi puts out way bigger pos then any american company. It's "supercar" puts out less power then a charger and gets worse fuel economy to boot. I find it hard to pay 3x more for a car that can handle better on a track, yet is inferior in all the ways I would use on a regular basis. Worse on gas, rides stiffer, wayy more expensive to fix, not as reliable...

can't contain myself any longer... American manufacturers sell more in America because of national pride; that part is true. When you go to Germany you see a horde of German cars cause of German national pride; Aston Martin's biggest market is the UK and last I checked Alfa Romeo's biggest market is Italy. America is a vastly different market to the rest of the world from my personal experience so what you see there doesn't reflect what happens elsewhere; where I'm from (which is South Africa) people buy German and Japanese cars because we feel they respect us enough to give us some of their best products, last I checked South Africa is biggest AMG market and BMWs first subsidiary outside of Germany is in South Africa; you should see the crap Chevy sells, just Daewoos with a Chevy badge... and Chryslers aren't ever the best in their class, EVER. Where I'm from it's hard to believe American cars really are as good as you say they are but that's cause they hardly ever sell their best products outside of the US. I'm not gonna argue sayin all American cars are crap but if what you say about American cars is true then they should contemplate selling those good cars elsewhere in the world; Ford doesn't undersell itself that's why their the least affected of the Big 3... but the Big 3 got complacent; they stopped innovating and just followed the rest of the world... if you compete in a market never fight to keep up, fight to change the rules of the game.

It's not possible for them to get rid of the union, there are many federal laws protecting their rights to have an union. The only way they can get rid of it is to offer them MORE than they currently get on the condition they disband the union. And all that would do is cost them more, and after the workers receive that raise and their contract for it is over they will form another union all over again with now a higher starting point..The union is not the problem, VW is union too. The problem is their corporate structure and years of over expansion with no products that can support this. Their entire manufacturing is based on the push method, where they push product through, even if there is no demand they are setup for failure because slowing production costs them more than producing cars and leaving them in a lot. The Japs and Germans are a pull system, their contracts with suppliers reflect this, they can afford to slow down production and production is driven by demand. Toyota here in Canada is slowing production and cutting shifts, the difference is they see this as an opportunity to send their employees for training, no layoffs. The big 3 need to completelly restructure their organization. 1) Close a few plants 2) Renegotiate contracts with suppliers to reflect a demand driven system (pull) 3) Train employees properly 4) Spend the spare time they have now to reflect on their mistakes and improve quality 5) Get rid of duplicate products 6) Import more products from europe 7) Develop a trendy reliable car, something along the lines of the Mini with a small diesel, join with apple to design a media control system 8) Cut pick ups to 1 model, quad cab with a diesel because if you don't need a Duramax Diesel you don't need a truck in the first place. These are just a few things, which need to be topped off by hiring the two top firms for quality and productivity (one from germany, one from japan) to completely re-evaluate the plants one by one, implement new production methods and such.

yawn, you could always claim bankruptsy default on all the pension plans, and renegotiate the union, heck if you go bankrupt you can start over, rehire all the workers and write in a anti union pact in their contracts. Unions are useless now a days, if a company treats their workers like shit, they always have the option to seek work elsewhere.

You can't write a no union pact....It's highly against the constitution. All you need to form a union is 100 people to sign a petition, it then goes to the govt who decides whether or not its warranted for a union. Most of the time they will approve it. If you get 1000 petitions signed its an automatic approval and you have an union. Based on the size of any of these car makers getting 1000 petitions signed is easy and wouldn't even take a week. Bankruptcy wont get rid of the union, the only way is like i said, fire everyone, hire new people and offer them a better package than the union. Now what can you to prevent them from starting a union? Not much other than offering them a better package than the union has elsewhere. It's a painful struggle,.

German companies have union representatives on their supervisory boards.

i meant inappropriate in second paragraph

the hybrid Ford Escape puts out 34 mpg in the city. Thats 4 mpg more the green car of the year tdi jetta.