Porsche, ever conservative in their approach to 911 design, have already revealed the facelifted versions of its current 911. Missing still has been the highly respected Turbo, but we can already confirm its existence from these latest spy pictures taken on the Nurburgring Nordschleife. The 911 Turbo is thought to be headed for a North American International Auto Show 2009 (Detroit) unveiling, which will confirm a number of features.
These include redesigned front and rear bumpers, a new headlight layout and new taillights. The new uprated turbo engine, probably displacing 3.8-litres, is said to make an extra 20hp (15kW) or so in order to set things completely straight between itself and its newest nemesis, the Nissan GT-R. Brakes are not expected to be changed because they are already in a very high class. Interior will get some form of enhancement as well to match the new look.
Porsche 911 Turbo Facelift Spy Photos on the Ring
AUTOMEDIA / Porsche 911 Turbo Facelift Spied
Comments
Tuner_Mad
October 16, 2008 10:04 AM
Good, I still like the same look. Don't fix something if it ain't broken.
bjoy
October 16, 2008 1:36 PM
i love how every other car company gets grilled if they don't totally rework the appearance of a car every year, but somehow porsche has the same car for 30 years and everybody does backflips over the "great 'new' design"... give me a break..
daviepops
October 16, 2008 10:22 AM
Minimal changes to a proven design have always worked for Porsche ... the day the 911 undergoes radical exterior change is the day Porsche lovers will stop buying it ... photos with the brake discs glowing in FULL DAYLIGHT look sensational
motorjedi
October 16, 2008 10:32 AM
How long were they toasting those brakes for? They must be made of molten magnesium! LOL. That's some hard driving, they must really be keen to wipe the smug off Nissan's face.
afterace2
October 16, 2008 10:45 AM
even if they outrun the GTR, so what? The Turbo costs twice as much, it should be twice as fast ;P
ShinyG
October 16, 2008 11:13 AM
And my Dacia Logan is 8 times cheaper that the GTR but it's definitely not 8 time slower. :P It does 0-60 in 10.2 (3 times slower) It does about 120mph (2 time slower) As you can see, it's a true bargain :P GTR, eat your heart out, there's the Romanian Vampire who's out to take your throne for best price/performance :p You know I'm joking, but I'm also mocking every person who says the GTR's price is something to be proud about... Seriously, there are reasons the 911 is more expensive than the GTR! For once, they payed a designer do create it, not a manga cartoonist...
pzigly
October 16, 2008 11:29 AM
First off the GTR looks like that because of its low Drag. Second Porsches should be getting cheaper because they have used the same VW Bug design from the 60's. I really dont see much change between this and a porsche from the 80's or 90's. All they did was get a little fatter.
catchmyshadow
October 16, 2008 12:41 PM
so the veyron should be 10times faster then? lol the 911 is quality for over 40 years now. it´s much more reliable and prestigeous, customers are willing to pay almost any price for such a classy car and it´s worth it.
pzigly
October 16, 2008 1:15 PM
FYI Nissan has 40 yrs of experience with the GTR's as well. Difference is when they restyle a car you can tell there is a change, but you can still tell its a GTR. AWD more advanced even the 1999 model is more advanced. Style is more advanced, engine is more advanced, computer is more advanced, desplay readings 10x more advanced, and the way the GTR is assembled is more advanced.
AG4
October 16, 2008 4:10 PM
" I really dont see much change between this and a porsche from the 80's or 90's. All they did was get a little fatter." A lot of changes happened, specially in the 90's and early 2000's.
pzigly, some selected models from the 911 Turbo's 34 year history. 1974 911 Turbo (260hp Air-cooled 3.0 liter SOHC Turbo, RWD, 0-60mph: 6.1 sec), 1984 911 Turbo (300hp Air-cooled 3.3 liter SOHC Turbo, RWD, 0-60mph: 5.1 sec), 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo (408hp Air-cooled 3.6 liter SOHC Twin-Turbo, AWD, 0-60 mph: 4.3 sec), 2008 Porsche 911 Turbo (480 hp water-cooled 3.6 liter DOHC Twin-Turbo, AWD, 0-60 mph: 3.7 sec M/T, 3.4 sec Tiptronic S)
For comparison, the standard 2009 911 Carrera now makes 345hp, and has a 0-60mph time of 4.7 sec.
pzigly
October 16, 2008 10:50 AM
I dont think 20hp will be enough to gain 2-3 seconds on a normal size track. The GTR is about 2-3 seconds faster on a 2-3 mile track. 20 hp might get a second. It would need to be 3-4sec quicker than the old one to beat the GTR. Nice try though....
ShinyG
October 16, 2008 11:08 AM
The biggest improvement is the PDK, that should help the 911 get back in the "race" with the GTR.
pzigly
October 16, 2008 11:16 AM
Nevermind I looked it up. Their version of dual clutch. With the weight advantage it already has, dual clutch might actually do it. But the GTR has a better AWD system and shorter gear ratios.
brocky
October 16, 2008 11:16 AM
It's their newest dual clutch system they installed on their 911 lineups. The best dual clutch system on the market.
pzigly
October 16, 2008 11:22 AM
Who the hell will ever say or Porsche Doppel Kupplungen (PDK) lol. lol They should change the name of the system for each language. Porsche Double Clutches (PDC)
9TNine
October 16, 2008 11:38 AM
Just call it an "AUTOMATIC"!
...basically that what all of them are, whether it's VW, Porsche, Nissan etc... etc...
mc959
October 16, 2008 3:51 PM
you forget that these are Porsche HP! 20HP difference with Porsche is a lot, look at the lap times of a 997 carrera and a 998 carrera it's also 20HP difference, i'm sure it will beat the GTR and then there will be the Gtr-V-spec that's gonna be faster, and Porsche will reply with the Turbo S and the new(facelift) GT2!
amade.ch
October 16, 2008 11:43 AM
double clutch system = automatic? that proves you've never driven such a car.
pzigly
October 16, 2008 1:46 PM
So you are saying that an F1 car has just an automatic? Dual clutch systems are faster and more efficient than manual. The only advantage in a manual is its easier to coast in neutral to save gas after you have reached your speed. A regular auto cant match shift speeds of a dual clutch.
9TNine
October 16, 2008 2:13 PM
YES… F1 cars today are basically automatics and are far easier to drive than F1 cars of old. Ask any F1 driver from that era and he’ll say life is much easier for F1 drivers of today!
YES. Dual Clutch systems are faster and more efficient! Does gearchange speed determine whether a transmission is an automatic or not? Being mechanical devices, they should be faster…!
But they are still automatics! A type of automatic. You can drive them without changing gear… …and the DEFINITION of an automatic is…???
At least with the manual Porsche, you don’t accidentally change gear when turning a corner, when you hand hits the thumb shifter by accident! Automatics have always had some sort of bad press with Europeans. So why don’t we add another clutch, add a bit more weight (of that clutch) and call it something other than “automatic”…???
pzigly
October 17, 2008 2:18 AM
Yes you can use it like an automatic, but you can also manually switch gears. It does not intervene and switch gears for you like other regular automatics. You get the best of both worlds.
mc959
October 16, 2008 3:56 PM
your all making a big fight between Porsche and Nissan, but the Nissan was also faster(ring-time + others) then the Ferrari F430 and 599GTB, and also the Lambo Gallardo and LP640, + all the other super cars
dmanero
October 16, 2008 3:59 PM
holy crap,porsche needs to rethink their brakes. That can't be normal that in day light we can see the rotors heat up like that. I know it's normal to see them at night. I've see races at the "ring" and never seen them light up like that.
AG4
October 16, 2008 5:22 PM
Don't Ceramic Composite Brakes really glow red-hot after being used repeatedly during hard breaking? These prototype cars are usually driven hard during testing. I heard that these type of brakes have incredible fade resistance even when red-hot.
M!
October 16, 2008 11:19 PM
wow. exactly. i have not seen other cars with their brake light up like this on the ring. it's quite intriguing looking at it. otherwise the 911 turbo is boring.
joelynn
October 16, 2008 4:29 PM
I respect Porsche for not changing the design because so many facelifts have ruined good cars, like the original Hyundai Coupe and the last FIAT Punto...
AmazingJerry
October 16, 2008 5:04 PM
FYI, an automatic transmission uses a torque converter and hydraulic pressure to shift gears. It follows a completely different operating principle than the mechanical double clutch systems or the sequential system used in an F1 car. PDK or F1 trans are NOT automatic transmissions.
9TNine
October 16, 2008 6:14 PM
that's amazing Jerry...
maybe it is, maybe it isn't... A CVT (Continiously variable transmission) is also an automatic, and considered an automatic!
As far as I'm concerned, and you are welcome to differ in opinion, as forums are that purpose, any car you can drive down the road WITHOUT the need to change gear is, imo, an automatic... regardless of whether it has 15 clutches, torque converters or warp drive or whatever...
pzigly
October 16, 2008 10:44 PM
I dont know what colors the spec V will have, but I am waiting for that to come out. I think the current GTR is too heavy.
Pentium
October 16, 2008 11:54 PM
hehehe The GT-R is a great, awesome...but for sure...there is gap between GT-R and 911...a big one...
and about Styling...Porsche's minimal changes are enough! as they do every year..it's just works!
benz_man
October 17, 2008 10:25 AM
Pzigly, the new 911T has a "smarter" engine, transmission, suspension, and AWD system. The engine is now DI (with Motronic MED), compared to the Nissan's port-injection. Both Porsche turbos are variable geometry, versus the Nissan's IHI supplied low-inertia units. The PDK is all next-level-tech, whereas the GTRs BorgWarner supplied gearbox uses many of the same "DualTronic" components BorgWarner puts in every other sequential manual box. (Audi, VW, Bugatti) Finally, the suspension and AWD systems on the new 911 are operating at 32-bit capacity. Sometime soon, Porsche will have to adopt FlexRay, or move on to 64-bit system architectures over the CANbus. I cant wait to see the direct competition. The new 911T is going to completely decimate the GTR. Although, it should...for all that money!
pzigly
October 17, 2008 10:59 AM
If the 911 is soo much "smarter" Then y can a heavier GTR out corner the 911 and accel faster than the GTR after the corner? The GTR has lateral G and yaw sensors to determine where the grunt goes. It proves it self time and time again. And from past results the GTR has a the engine that is capable of having over 1000 reliable hp. Its also a rear mounted engine rather than mid engined. The GTR is front mid. There is more balance in the GTR.
pzigly
October 17, 2008 11:16 AM
Then y can a heavier GTR out corner the 911 and accel faster than the 911*^ after the corner?
Pentium
October 17, 2008 4:27 PM
the GT-R has lots of Technical stuff, but it's not more advanced than a Porsche!
at least the gearbox isn't :)
benz_man
October 17, 2008 10:36 PM
Pzigly, I'm talking about the Porsche we see in these pics. It hasn't been officially tested yet. But, being the GTRs most direct competition, this is Porsche's retribution.
benz_man
October 17, 2008 10:43 PM
And, its not a new thing for AWD controllers to link with the ESP computer and share sensor data (gyro-meters and lateral-accel sensors). Porsche's AWD systems have been doing this for years now. So do just about all modern AWD systems.
pzigly
October 18, 2008 3:52 AM
O ok I thought you were talking about the current turbo. Obviously the new one will be more advanced. I still dont think the awd is smarter than the GTR's. And even if it were, I am not sure it would make a difference, because the GTR sensors and response to those sensors react in real time.
Airbag
October 17, 2008 2:53 AM
DSG style gear boxes can operate in an automatic manner, but are not generally referred to as an automatic transmission as a matter of disambiguation. An automatic implies a planetary gear set and usually a torque converter (a notable exception being the M-B MCT transmission).
benz_man
October 17, 2008 9:50 AM
WOW, the comments on this article are hilarious! There is a clear and distinct difference between an automatic transmission, a CVT, and manual gear box. (For the sake of argument, lets just have the three categories) Like Airbag stated so eloquently, an automatic has a planetary gear set (of some type) and 99% of the time a torque converter (a fluid coupling device). There are two types of "sequential" shifting devices: auto-manuals, automatic transmissions that you can shift "manually"; and manu-matics, manual transmissions that (through high precision electro-hydraulics) can be shifted automatically. The CVT is like a 10-speed mountain bike, but with additional "half-gears" (and "quarter-gears", and "eighth-gears"...) between 1-10. The changes are "stepless" or "infinite". I don't even want to begin to explain a manual transmission. Just wikipedia it. If you dig cars...you'll want to know the difference! They're all so completely different, each with its own pros and cons. For kicks, VW has been passing off its DSG as a "six speed automatic" in US Jettas and Rabbits for some years now.
Airbag
October 17, 2008 6:27 PM
And it's fair enough in terms of marketing to treat anything without a third pedal as an automatic so the non-petrolheads among us will know that they can drive it, but among enthusiasts I think we can do better than that.
9TNine
October 19, 2008 10:52 PM
Point taken, but I’ve just seen a second hand Golf GTi DSG advertised for sale described as an "automatic". [page 127, Autocar magazine – week ending 15 October 2008]
In many European countries, when you pass your driving test in manual car, you can legally drive BOTH a manual or an automatic. However, if you pass your test in an automatic, you can ONLY legally drive an automatic (and NOT a manual)
Question: now, if you pass your test in a DSG / PDK etc… etc… in Europe, What do your reckon you are legally entitled to drive (regardless of any technical differences)??
benxxl
October 17, 2008 10:04 AM
Those of you who realy believe in the lap-times told by Nissan are fools. A bloody GT-R will never be as quick around the ring as a Porsche GT2. I´m more than sure Nissan cheated. Anyway it was good marketing...
Pentium
October 17, 2008 8:31 PM
maybe you are right...and there is this gearbox thing, I don't know...! but still GT-R is awesome car..but not good as a 911 :)
hescian
October 17, 2008 9:25 PM
Heh, Pzigly is a huge GT-R fan, but judging by his comments on this and other posts, I doubt he's even old enough to drive, much less have the money to afford one. And anyone who thinks a double-clutch transmission is just like an automatic really needs to get out of the stone age. I prefer the enjoyment of driving a true manual transmission, but the performance of a dual clutch can't be argued with. All sports cars are headed in that direction, and they should be.
pzigly
October 17, 2008 9:54 PM
First off im 23, Second Ive owned 4 cars. Third I have a GTR spec V fund building up. Fourth if I saw a car that does the same as the GTR for the same price, I would embrace it. And fifth if you actually read from other posts you would know that I drive a nissan 3.5L v6, and o ya its stick.
pzigly
October 17, 2008 10:00 PM
O ya and in the past 2 years, since Ive worked at a mechanic shop that does work for used car dealers, I have driven over 50 different models, from Hummers to 2 door sport cars.
GanSan
October 17, 2008 10:59 PM
Forgive me if I missed the part where this article was all about the GT-R, but how about posting comments about the Porsche?
Porsche haven't changed their design because it's pretty close to perfect; not just as a matter of opinion on styling, but the shape and style have low drag.
pzigly
October 17, 2008 11:20 PM
The GTR has a better drag ratio than any porsche. The 4door nissan altima has the same drag ratio as a 911 turbo. So I dont think they kept that style because of low drag.
hescian
October 20, 2008 8:12 PM
The 911 has been a great car for decades. The current 911 Turbo is sensational. I'm sure this new one will be just as great. One of the reasons that the 911 is held in such high regard, is that it truly is an EVERYDAY supercar. Anyone here who has owned one, knows that you can drive it every day, and pay a fraction for maintenance than you would with any other car of the same performance. From a styling standpoint, generally speaking, german cars do not drastically change the styling of their cars from year to year. They're styling evolves. You can always see elements of the last design, and direction towards future design. On the other hand, Japanese manufacturers will completely restyle their cars every couple of years. Some cars look good enough that they don't need a complete restyling, and the 911 is one of those cars.
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