2009 Lincoln MKS In Depth

2009 Lincoln MKS

8,600 order placed

By Frank de Leeuw van Weenen
June 4, 2008 12:00 AM
Filed Under: American, Lincoln

Press Release

LINCOLN MKS: MODERN DESIGN, LEADING TECHNOLOGY COME STANDARD ON BRAND’S NEW FLAGSHIP SEDAN

  • Lincoln MKS is the all-new Lincoln luxury flagship, a dynamic and elegant vision of the Lincoln design DNA that is meticulously crafted with exclusive materials. 
  • Lincoln MKS offers the largest selection of comfort and convenience technology features of any other luxury sedan in its class, including: Adaptive Cruise Control, Intelligent Access with Push-button Start, next-generation SecuriCode™ Keyless Entry, Adaptive HID headlamps with Auto High Beam, Rain-Sensing Wipers, Forward Sensing System, Rearview Camera System and Easy Fuel™ capless refueling.  
  • Lincoln MKS connectivity technologies include SYNC™, Next-Generation Navigation with SIRIUS Travel Link™ and a THX® II Certified 5.1 Surround Sound Audio System 
  • Available 20-inch wheels, a new six-speed SelectShift® automatic transmission and a Lincoln-exclusive 3.7-liter V-6 engine with 273 horsepower and 270 lb.-ft. of torque on non-premium fuel provide the Lincoln MKS responsive power and a smooth, connected ride.  
  • Lincoln MKS features a robustly strong body structure that incorporates ultra-high-strength steels, plus safety technologies that include a new Adaptive Collapsible Steering Column, AdvanceTrac® electronic stability control and Safety CanopyTM, which offer side impact and rollover protection.

Lincoln MKS, the new full-size sedan, makes its production debut, continuing the momentum for Lincoln and offering customers dynamic, modern design and some of the most sophisticated safety, convenience and comfort technologies available on any car.

"The Lincoln MKS ensures a high level of comfort for all passengers, thanks to a class-leading interior package," said Brett Wheatley, Lincoln Mercury general marketing manager. "Abundant space, coupled with a comprehensive suite of features and technologies, delivers the luxury experience that Lincoln customers want and deserve."

First to Embody Lincoln Design DNA

Dynamic and clean-lined, the new Lincoln MKS is the first production vehicle to embrace the Lincoln design DNA introduced on the Lincoln MKR concept.

"The Lincoln MKS is a substantial car with a well-proportioned athleticism and several signature design cues we developed after carefully auditing the best Lincoln design elements over time," says Peter Horbury, executive director of Design, The Americas. "Lincoln design has always been more discreet, exuding a kind of understated luxury, and we've designed the this luxury sedan understanding that the Lincoln owner views the MKS as a reward for hard work, not simply an outward symbol of status."

The most striking exterior design feature is the double-wing grille, inspired by the 1941 Lincoln Continental. The grille sweeps up into the jewel-like high-intensity discharge (HID) headlamps to form a single graphic element that further accentuates the face. A bright chrome Lincoln star rests prominently between the grille's wings.

Key design cues include the sculpted hood and fast-raked windshield, which forms a sleek roofline. The broad-shouldered Lincoln MKS also features a beltline that kicks up slightly over the rear wheels, another modern tribute to classic Lincoln design.

Elegant details include a polished stainless steel side window surround that finishes with a wide flourish at the front edge of the C-pillar – accentuating the tapered cantrail of the cantilevered roof. Stainless steel strips also run the length of the car, framing the available twin-panel moon roof and flowing into the tall decklid.

At the rear, exquisitely detailed LED taillamps are accented by a vertical white light strip that runs along the edge of the decklid, and a horizontal chrome strip is inset with a Lincoln star.

The Lincoln MKS Interior: Meticulous Detail

The meticulously detailed 2009 Lincoln MKS delivers a precision-crafted environment resplendent in hand-wrapped premium leather as well as real wood and metal accents.

Warm and inviting, it incorporates a more modern interpretation of the symmetrical instrument panel design that also is featured in the Lincoln Navigator, MKZ sedan and MKX crossover.

The instrument panel flows horizontally from door to door, its top portion is hand-wrapped in durable, eco-friendly leatherette with double-stitching. The instrument panel is divided into upper and lower portions by a stripe of sculpted wood highlighted by a line of chrome.

Trimmed at the top in real wood, the leather-wrapped steering wheel frames an elegant instrument cluster with gauges circled with delicate chrome rings. Details of the interior design also are accented in sculpted aluminum.

"There is nothing on the cockpit that is concentrated only on the driver," Horbury said. "With Lincoln, the business-class ride is a shared experience for all on board."

Elegant and flowing surfaces create the feeling that the interior has been sculpted, rather than constructed. The flow-through center stack is topped with an integrated information screen that also serves as the screen for the available navigation system. Standard leather seats are double-stitched and feature an exclusive Lincoln perforation pattern on the inserts.

Customers can choose from three distinct interior options, all set off by Lincoln's signature cool white lighting.

A philosophy of "guilt-free luxury" means Lincoln MKS uses materials and processes that reflect the finer things in life but not at the expense of the world around them, including:

  • Leather for the seats by Bridge of Weir, the same Scottish company that supplied hides for the iconic Continental Mark II. Chosen for its high quality and its organic, chromium-free tanning, this is the softest leather ever used in a Lincoln.  
  • Ebony wood, used for some models, reclaimed from furniture makers and others sources to offer a beautiful and rare wood with minimal environmental impact.

The MKS offers best-in-class interior volume of 105.9 cubic feet and best-in-class luggage space of 18.4 cubic feet, nearly four times larger than some competitors.

New Lincoln comfort seats, developed first for the Lincoln MKS, feature side bolster support designed for spirited driving. The standard heated and cooled, 12-way power driver and front passenger seats offer four-way lumbar (up, down, inboard and outboard) for added comfort on long trips.

Rear seat passengers also enjoy a luxury experience that begins as they enter the cabin, via the largest rear-door opening of its class. MKS also offers segment-exclusive standard heated rear seats.

Recessed into the front and rear door openings, cleverly designed hidden rocker panels allow for a lower step-over height, making it easier to enter or exit the vehicle. This design shields the rockers from the elements, reducing the likelihood of soiling shoes or trousers when entering or exiting the vehicle.

Largest Array of Comfort and Convenience Technology Features

The Lincoln MKS offers the largest selection of comfort and convenience technology features of any other luxury sedan in its class, including:

Adaptive Cruise Control, which allows the driver to set the car's speed and maintain it without using the accelerator pedal. The radar-based system also can monitor the vehicle in front (up to 600 feet) and adjust the speed of the Lincoln MKS to keep it a safe distance behind the lead vehicle, even in fog or heavy rain. Four settings allow the driver to set a desired distance, speed and the time gap between vehicles.

Intelligent Access with Push Button Start, a first for Lincoln, allows the driver to enter the Lincoln MKS and start the engine without using a key. Drivers simply carry the special fob as they approach the vehicle, touch the keyless entry pad on the B-Pillar, open the door and with the brake pedal engaged, start the engine by pushing a button. Unlike some systems, the Intelligent Access key fob will work even if it is kept in the trunk, in a coat pocket or briefcase.

SecuriCode™ Keyless Entry Keypad, the next-generation version of a feature familiar to Lincoln owners. It allows access to the vehicle by unlocking the driver door using a five-digit code. The new system is now flush-mounted to the car's driver-side B-pillar, using technology similar to that found on portable MP3 music players to create heat-sensitive, backlit numerals that become visible once they're touched.

Adaptive Headlamps with Standard High-Intensity Discharge (HID) Lamps enhance nighttime visibility by illuminating more of the road and reducing glare from oncoming traffic. Sensors monitor vehicle speed and steering wheel input engaging electric motors that pivot the left headlamp up to 5 degrees and the right headlamp up to 15 degrees to increase the driver's field of vision.

Auto High Beams coupled with the Adaptive Headlamps enhance nighttime visibility by switching to high intensity when no other vehicles are in range and automatically reverting to low beam intensity when they detect the headlamps or taillamps of other vehicles. Derived from sensing technology developed for NASA, the system can detect taillamps at a distance of more than 500 feet and headlamps at a distance of 2,000 feet. A patented filtering technique distinguishes street lights from vehicle light sources, preventing unnecessary dimming.

Rain-Sensing Wipers use an advanced optical sensing system to detect how hard rain or snow is falling and determine when to activate windshield wipers and how fast to run the wiper motor. An infrared beam "reads" the surface of the glass and sends information to a sensor mounted in the windshield shade band. Customers can program the system to their preference choosing from five different sensitivity settings.

The Forward Sensing System uses four hidden sensors mounted in the front fascia and audible beeps to help drivers determine how close they are to objects in front of their vehicle while parking. It can detect objects up to 1,500 feet away, plus objects at certain heights even out of the driver's view, such as parking blocks. It operates only below 8 mph.

The Rearview Camera System works in conjunction with the vehicle's reverse sensing system and uses the navigation screen as a display. A camera mounted beneath the Lincoln Star on the decklid is activated when the vehicle is shifted into reverse.

Easy Fuel™ Capless Fuel-Filler System is an industry-exclusive feature that provides customers a hassle-free, odor-free and more-consistent seal than a manual fuel cap. When fueling is completed and the nozzle is removed, the system automatically seals shut. The system has an invisible benefit, too – fewer evaporative emissions.

SYNC is standard on an array of 2009 Lincoln vehicles. The award-winning, industry-exclusive, voice-activated hands-free communications and entertainment system developed by Ford and Microsoft, fully integrates most Bluetooth®-enabled mobile phones and digital media players into the vehicle.

Voice-Activated Navigation System with SIRIUS Travel Link™ offers a host of convenient features including more than 150 hours of music storage. Users can browse the music juke box via touch-screen or by using voice recognition. The system also integrates the climate control and SIRIUS satellite radio into one easy-to-use, smudge-resistant, 8-inch touch-screen display.

Users can even upload personal pictures from CD to be displayed on the system's home screen. SIRIUS Travel Link™ provides users access to up-to-the-minute information including real-time gas prices at the closest stations as well as movie listings and sports scores through the vehicle's navigation system.

THX® II Certified 5.1 Surround Sound Audio System delivers true 5.1 surround sound from DVD movies and DVD-Audio music. A 12-channel, 600 watt "smart amp" delivers digital sound to the system's 16 specially-placed speakers, including a 10-inch subwoofer. The precision-tuned system uses state-of-the-art digital technology to turn the cabin of the Lincoln MKS into a theater or concert hall.

Quiet Comfort and Confident Driving Experience

The new Lincoln flagship sedan offers exceptional quietness and comfort and a confident driving experience, providing intuitive feedback to drivers along with a secure feeling behind the wheel.

The Lincoln MKS puts the driver in command. Its chassis provides isolation from road noise and harshness but doesn't isolate the driver from the road. Steering is precise and responsive, requiring little input from the cockpit.

The Lincoln MKS features a new, fully independent rear suspension (IRS) that has been designed and tuned to deliver a perfect balance of performance, handling and comfort.

A unique design places vertically mounted shock absorbers at the outboard end of the suspension arms, near the wheels. This configuration increases the motion ratio of the suspension allowing for a more precise tuning while also facilitating the larger wheels and tires that are desired by today's luxury customers.

"The setup significantly increases the efficiency of the dampers," said Jim Baumbick, Vehicle Development chief engineer. "This allows us to tune the suspension more finely across a wider range of attributes and deliver the optimum in both handling and ride comfort."

The MacPherson strut and rear-facing L-shaped lower control arm front suspension was designed to maximize suspension travel and tuned to work in harmony with the rear suspension. Together, the new front and rear suspension design can accommodate available, class-exclusive, 20-inch wheels and tires without compromising ride comfort.

Extensive development work also focused on creating the quiet isolation of the Lincoln MKS, befitting its new Lincoln flagship status.

The body structure of the Lincoln MKS was optimized for strength and stiffness. Along with noteworthy crash performance, the solid structure delivers the smooth, quiet ride luxury customers expect. Tire and bushing development focused on further tuning out low-frequency road noise and vibration.

The high-end sound package centers on a new technology that's a first for Lincoln and the MKS – an injection-molded rubber dash panel that runs from the floor, just under the carpet, up to the top of the dash and back over the cowl to block unwanted wind and powertrain noise. The same technology is used inside rear wheel wells.

A 6-millimeter-thick laminated windshield and laminated side glass, sound-absorbing carpeting and acoustic headliner round out the basic sound package.

Delivering a Smooth, Connected Driving Experience

The Lincoln MKS is powered by a new 3.7-liter V-6 engine. This powertrain has been derived from the proven 3.5-liter V-6 found in the Lincoln MKX and Lincoln MKZ, which was voted one of Ward's 10-Best Engines for 2007.

Both engines share the same strong, die-cast aluminum block and lightweight four-valve heads for smooth operation at high rpms. The 3.7-liter's larger cylinders contribute to the increase in horsepower and torque. This engine delivers 273 horsepower and 270 lb.-ft. of torque and does not require premium-grade fuel.

Technologies such as variable valve timing are utilized to deliver substantial torque at lower rpms while reducing emissions. The Lincoln MKS qualifies for U.S Federal Tier 2 Bin 5 emissions and California Emissions State ULEV-II emissions standards.

"This engine is tuned to maximize the increased torque to improve performance where the driver needs it most, in standing acceleration and passing," says Michael Celentino, Lincoln MKS chief engineer. "To help manage the extra torque, the Lincoln MKS's six-speed automatic transmission is equipped with a stiffer torque converter that delivers an immediate throttle response and a more connected feel."

The MKS uses a pair of technologies that help to improve fuel economy and further reduce emissions without compromising performance:

  • A two-speed fuel pump that alternates between two flow settings, running on a low setting, which requires less energy, whenever conditions allow. 
  • Aggressive Deceleration Fuel Shut-Off (ADFSO) is a fuel-saving system that shuts off fuel flow to the injectors when the driver backs completely out of the throttle with the vehicle in fifth or sixth gear, such as exiting onto a freeway off ramp.

The Lincoln MKS features a six-speed automatic transmission with SelectShift® that delivers smoother shifts, better fuel economy and acceleration as well as enhanced performance feel. SelectShift, making its Lincoln debut on the new flagship sedan, allows the driver to select gears manually when desired.

An all-wheel-drive (AWD) system provides for a confident driving experience in all weather conditions. The unit uses a sophisticated system of clutches to quickly distribute torque between front and rear wheels – up to 100 percent in either direction – as needed, to avoid wheel slip.

"Drive the new Lincoln MKS and its engaging and rewarding driving experience is immediately clear," Celentino says. "The power is smooth and responsive, absolutely fitting the character of the new flagship Lincoln luxury sedan. This automobile creates an outstanding first impression and lives up to it."

The Lincoln MKS Safety Story

The 2009 Lincoln MKS builds on Ford Motor Company's safety leadership.

Using Computer-Aided Engineering (CAE), engineers and designers have developed the Lincoln MKS for optimal strength, stiffness and superb crashworthiness. Its energy-absorbing front structure – with octagonal front frame rails, tunnel rails and "shotgun" front structural members – is designed to absorb and redirect front crash forces away from the passenger compartment. The new sedan also features the class-exclusive Side Protection And Cabin Enhancement Architecture™ (SPACE) designed to optimize side impact protection.

The body structure features ultra high-strength boron steel in the B-pillar for added protection in a side impact and improves roof strength. The side impact door beams also have also been configured to provide optimal protection.

The Lincoln MKS is equipped with a comprehensive package of active and passive safety features, including dual-stage driver and front passenger air bags, seat-mounted side air bags, safety belt pretensioners and load-limiting retractors and driver seat positioning sensor.
Other key safety features include:

  • Occupant Classification System – Using a sophisticated sensor, it determines via weight whether the front passenger seat is empty, occupied by a child seat or small, medium or large occupant and can deploy the air bag as needed. 
  • Adaptive Collapsible Steering Column – In an impact, the column will collapse, dependent on the weight and belted status of the driver.  
  • Safety CanopyTM – Ford's exclusive side impact protection system features side curtain air bags that help protect front and rear outboard passengers in both rollovers and side impact crashes.  
  • AdvanceTrac® electronic stability control system uses sensors to monitor yaw, the vehicle's speed, throttle position and steering wheel angle and selectively applies individual brakes to help correct skids.  
  • Ford's Belt-Minder®, a safety belt reminder technology for the driver and front passenger that takes over after the initial safety belt reminder stops chiming.

The Lincoln MKS sedan goes on sale this summer and is built at the Chicago Assembly Plant.

Source: Ford
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Comments

radmeister
June 4, 2008 1:38 AM
Very nice looking car but that 17mpg has to be a typo. This thing should get over 30mpg.

pzigly
June 4, 2008 12:37 PM
17 city/24 highway. Its 4,200 pounds what do u expect? And why are they so impressed with 274 hp from a 3.7L? Nissan has been getting more horsepower from a 3.5L since 2003. They are also able to get 27-79mpg highway without "Aggressive Deceleration Fuel Shut-Off (ADFSO)" "technology". This car is kind of late in its technology. I would much rather get a Infinity M or G. I would be faster, sportier, get better gas efficiency, and have leather that lasts over 3 years.

mcfast101
June 4, 2008 3:05 AM
WELL WE KNOW ABOUT 50% OF THOSE 8,600 customers WHO PLANS ON BUYING THIS CAR WILL BE NYC CAB BLACK LIMO CABES.

desiathate
June 4, 2008 4:22 AM
ohh come on thats just down right stupid thinking!!! really is what you think is gona happ! really i am in loss of words to call u and explain to u why that wont happ... just wow u are just ohh i have no words 4 u

DieselDog
June 4, 2008 4:54 AM
17 mpg? Seriously?! No wonder WCF are offering a photo of the new "easy fill" capless fuel filler port. Buyers won't have the time nor the inclination to be constantly removing a filler cap when such an ugly, shrunken beast is so awfully thirsty. Do I hear death bells for Lincoln? Hope so!

gmfan09
June 4, 2008 7:05 AM
Hope so? Whats that mean?

caraddict
June 4, 2008 1:05 PM
pzigly, right on the money you just spoke my mind!

pzigly
June 4, 2008 2:29 PM
I forgot something too. Doesnt Nissan have a 3.7L that produces 330 hp which is still in the beginning stages? I bet nissan will be able to get 350 hp from its 3.7L in a couple years while this car has to use twin turbo to get 340hp.

And I know someone here will mention the torque difference, but you dont need that much tourque so you are able to get that power to the ground and not burn out all the time. Less torque would help out alot with this car, espically for the people getting the 20inch option. Trust me at over $200 a piece for some good tires you will want less torque (unless you drive like grandma all the time).

foose1397
June 4, 2008 3:16 PM
Its not even the 17 mpg that bothers me. It really bothers me because its on premium fuel. One of the incentives of having the lincoln mkz over anyother car was because it ran on just unleaded. They take that away and well..........i don't care how good a car looks (this is just mediocre), there still are operating costs

benz_man
June 4, 2008 7:50 PM
Its on regular fuel.

pzigly
June 4, 2008 11:04 PM
They tested it on regular, but the car recommends premium.

LS460Fan
June 4, 2008 4:46 PM
is this a 7 series or a 5 series competitor?

benz_man
June 4, 2008 7:52 PM
Its a 5 series competitor...but its not dynamically competitive against a 5, or a 3 series for that matter.

eat-my-shorts
June 4, 2008 6:03 PM
It looks like a Ford what-cha-ma-call-it Lincoln, trying to look like a Toyota Camry!!!!! Or is it just me?

benz_man
June 4, 2008 7:49 PM
pzigly- Lets see, the 3.5L in Nissan's 2008 Altima gets 19/25, and weighs considerably less than this car; what are you talking about? Nissan does use engine control algorithms similar to ADFSO. All companies do and have been since the early 90's, they just choose not to market their proprietary drivetrain logic for a "green" image. Your theory on torque is misguided. If the only reasoning behind your dislike of high tq engines is the price of tires, you should push the little button that sais "traction control" or just learn how to drive. Lastly, the twin turbo V6 isn't configured to make lots of power. Thanks to CAFE everythings an efficiency game now. It will make small V8 numbers, and get small V6 fuel economy. How can you hate?

pzigly
June 4, 2008 10:52 PM
First off the altima gets 26-27 highway. And I thought they use variable valve timing to get performance while saving gas. Also, I drive a altima 3.5SE 5spd. On the 5spd of that yr they didn't offer abs or tcs and I dont burn out like crazy when I accelerate eventhough I can if I wanted, so lets not judge my driving skills. Im not used to computers limiting my performance. No matter what you computer you have there is still a load on the tires is might not show when you begin to accel but it will when you get to a curvy road.

pzigly
June 4, 2008 11:03 PM
Regarding the twin turbo, I was just mentioning that nissan can get 330hp on its 3.7L and ford has to use a twin turbo to get 340hp. If they used smarter engine technology they could get the hp and efficiency they want. And unless you make the turbos kick in at high revs, the turbos they use will not be able to hide the mpg difference and it will get the mpg of a V8. I predict 20mpg highway or a little less.

benz_man
June 5, 2008 9:03 AM
pzigly, #1 The load that "shows on the tires...when you get to a curvy road" has nothing to do with engine tq, and everything to do with inertia and vehicle weight. #2 Nissan & Ford both use VVT on there V6s to improve low rpm torque, high rpm power, improve low- idle and create valve overlap for EGR. The major benefit of the VVEL technology that Nissan uses on its 3.7L V6 (same for BMWs Valvetronic) is the significant reduction in pumping losses during high speed/low load driving (highway) due to completely open throttle-bodies that allow unrestricted air into the intake manifold without creating a vacuum or spike when the valves open & close for every intake stroke. Modern forced induction engines go without these losses because the manifold is often pressurized and can be manipulated to curtail them. Both Nissan and Ford are looking for efficiency gains, they've just chosen different ways of achieving it. While Nissan will have trouble finding 350+HP from this 3.7L (maybe they'll enlarge it again at the expense of MPGs), and will never have enough tq down low to haul around anything truly heavy, Ford will be just a software update away from 350+HP with enough tq where it matters to move something substantial, like a Navigator. BMWs twin turbo X6 35 is faster to 60 than the V8 4.6i in the first gen X5 and better on gas!

pzigly
June 5, 2008 1:04 PM
#1 on a curvy road you need to push the gas to get out of corners, torque helps blad tires and in the rain on a curvy road I would rather be in a Nissan than a Ford. You think their 3.5 cant carry around anything heavy and still have good gas efficiency. Lets see.... Nissan Quest, Infinity FX, Murano, infinity M, and infinity EX. All heavy cars that use the 3.5L. And if they do not feel that is adequate they have a 4.0L v6 that will do the job. When it is all said and done, you are gonna sit there and actually try and convince me that this ford engine is as smart and as efficient and Nissans 3.5L. I actually give ford credit in the last 2 years for finally making adequite cars. This car is a major step up for them, but I still do not feel like they have surpassed any japanese automaker in performance, handling, efficiency, or reliability.

pzigly
June 5, 2008 1:15 PM
Dont get me wrong I am not saying that this idea to put twin turbo on that 3.7 is bad. I am saying that this output is low for this day and age. If I am going to spend my hard earned 40k+ on this car I want to to get atleast 380-400 hp, espically when Nissan can get their 3.7 to 330. 275 and 340 were ok 5-6 years ago but not now.

benz_man
June 5, 2008 8:39 PM
My statement on the VQ35 versus heavy vehicles isn't about MPG, anything gets good MPG numbers when you strap it to a CVT and listen to it drone at its peak tq value whenever you accelerate. Its about the lack of low-end tq in the VQ (and most oversquare 3.5L V6s for that matter). The only truly heavy vehicle you mentioned above was the FX, and the FX35s acceleration is far from breathtaking. YES I am trying to convince you that the Ford ecoboost system is "as smart" (if not more) and efficient as Nissans VQ35 series. The turbos go on the 3.5 not 3.7, and how is 340HP and 340ft/lbs low output, when its more than the competition musters from there V6s and damn close to there V8 numbers? Not only is this more HP than the M45, but it makes more TQ at a lower RPM, for longer! Truth be told, I'd buy a G or M before an MKS every day of the week. But thats not because the engine "isn't as efficient", or the "technology is outdated". I just prefer a more dynamically involving (READ: fun to drive) car. Its not sh** just because I don't like it. Some people prefer floating Lexus'(Lexi?) to 'bahn-storming Bimmers.

pzigly
June 5, 2008 9:44 PM
The thing is, the Ford is a engine that is for utility. Its not a sports engine. On all the cars that I mentioned, except for the quest, the engine was put in it for a sporty feel. If you drive the g37 you wont feel that it has less torque. 340 is more than competitors, but it is low output for twin turbo. Let me ask you: If Nissan put a twin turbo on its 3.5. Do you think it would be 340 hp? Torque would even be even higher than that for that matter.

benz_man
June 6, 2008 3:54 AM
The Ford engine is for utility? The VQ37VHR is a sports engine? You won't feel less torque? Less torque is exactly what you feel, horsepower is a measurement. It has nothing to do with what the driver "feels". You should drive a turbo-diesel. Even if Nissan could cheaply turbocharge their VQ series they would have to compromise around 350HP/350lb/ft for MPG and emissions.

pzigly
June 6, 2008 5:43 AM
First off Nissan did turbo charge their VQ series... Its called the GTR. And that engine does not compromise anything. Please do not judge nissan's turbo charging ablility. You need to drive the G37 or even the G35 to see for your self. I drove ford and I drive nissan. The experience is totally different. You do not feel involved in the drive. I know what torque is and ford is the one that cheaply turbocharged their engine. They did that to avoid spending money to improve their 3.7.

pzigly
June 6, 2008 5:45 AM
You do not feel involved in the drive. (In the ford)

benz_man
June 6, 2008 1:38 PM
Nissan has never turbocharged there VQ series for production. The VR38DETT in the GTR gets its basics from a VQ, but the VQ needs pricey modifications before it can hold any pressure. Thats why the VR38 is hand built in a clean-room at a considerable cost. I'm not "judging Nissan", I'm just stating facts. Had Nissan planned to offer turbo VQs from its inception I'm sure they'd all be built to hold boost. Aftermarket companies offer forced induction kits but they void Nissan's warranty because the timing chains stretch, the alloy Nissan uses for light weight pistons doesn't like heat...etc The GTR is a low volume, hyper-exotic. Nissan doesn't have to average in a lot of sales, so CAFE isn't affected much. However, for a high-volume production engine, like the VQ or Fords 3.5 Ecoboost, thats used across multiple platforms a company has to make sure the fuel economy averages well. I've driven multiple G37s, and my roommate owned a G35. Both pale in comparison to the 335, only because the BMW has that endless surge of 300+ lbs of tq literally off idle. No turbo lag, just thrust, right up to redline. Ford has manipulated there turbo arrangement to operate in this same way. Its not cheap, it takes lots of processing power and engineering. They're not just slapping two turbos on it. Anyone can smack turbos on an engine, but to refine the boost response and tq curve to make a small engine seamlessly run like a larger one, while burning less fuel, is pretty trick. They've invested the last of what they have on this technology. Do you think they would skimp out on there last chance? The engine has much less to do with the "sporting nature" of a car than the suspension, braking system and steering feel combined. If I dropped the VQ35 in an ES350 would the Lexus all of a sudden be more sporting? NO. Can a heavy, slow revving diesel engine win Le mans? YES. Some people don't want to be involved in the drive. They want to be isolated and cosseted. Thats why Lexus exists and the Camry is the #1 selling car in America. I personally love to drive, so Id never purchase an MKS or a Lexus. But are they sh** just cause I prefer something else?

pzigly
June 6, 2008 10:30 PM
First off everyone that I know that has that 335 has complained about that turbo charged engine. It overheats a lot. Every Reviewer likes the g37 over the 335. During the test of the 335 vs g37 the 335 over heated. My friend had to return her car to the dealer even after they put a $10k cooling system. They gave her a new BMW 335 and after a few months that problem came up again. The vq engine on the g35's werent ment to be turbo charges. But when Nissan took that same block to turbo it they got 500hp. An engine has to have been set up to take turbo. My comment earlier was if they made the VQ series to take turbo it would be much more than 350 hp. Second, I am not saying that this cars is crap. The engine on it is good (way better than the crap they were making), all I was saying is that the output they have now on this car is similar to what nissan was over 5 years ago: 280hp 270 torque and very similar figures. ALSO these numbers are on a 3.5 and this is a 3.7. So similar numbers on a smaller engine!!!!

Again I am not saying this car is crap, but Nissan did have these same numbers over 5 years ago.

benz_man
June 7, 2008 6:36 PM
Most of the reviews for the 335 Ive read have titled the 335 the "better car", and the G37 as the "better value", with the engine being the major deciding factor. Frankly, I agree. Nothing personal, but I'm kinda hesitant to believe the story of your friends overheating 335 because the overheating issue has nothing to do with the cooling system. The oil overheats on automatic equipped 335s without the sport package because an oil cooler was not provided from the factory on those models. BMW has corrected this issue and begun retrofitting oil-coolers. The oil cooler, although thermostatically controlled, is not $10K and little damage is done to the engine because it enters "limp-home mode" at 300F. I should know, I work on them every day. Like I stated before: Nissan didn't get 500HP from the VQ block, because they cant turbocharge that block. The GTRs engine block is considerably different, hence the VR designation in the engine title. Nissan did however use all the knowledge they gained from making the VQ for 14 years. Ford could get more than 350HP from the turbo V6 but they choose not to because the engine must meet CAFE and emissions standards. If you didn't realize it, 300HP is a lot harder to SAE certify now than it was in 2003. Now you've got me interested to see the 1/4 mile times on the MKS versus the first gen G35.

pzigly
June 7, 2008 11:19 PM
I know they installed a oil cooler but I didnt think it was $10K. She she was however able to return the car and get another 335 (lemon law) and the new one did the same after a few months.

Stillen offers superchargers and turbo chargers for the g35 and the 350Z with a 3 year warrenty. I could even get a turbo charger for my 3.5 altima. If an after market company can do it, then Nissan can do it for less than half the price. I dont know why you keep saying it cant hold pressure because it clearly can.

The 3.5 2003 infinity g35 will terrorize the mkz in every angle of performance. It is lighter and i know has better handling. I could beat it in my altima. 0-60 5.9 and probably lower now since I put summer tires on it and a quarter mile in the lower 14's. I wouldnt be surprised if the Mk got higher 6 sec and a 15 or 16 quarter mile.

benz_man
June 8, 2008 7:52 PM
Had your friend picked up another 335 without an oil cooler the vehicle would have overheated immediately, whenever high engine loads, high temperatures, and low vehicle speed converge on her daily commute. I can put a turbocharger on your Altima and it'll be really fast...until it doesn't run anymore. Stillen doesn't have to worry about product life cycles, consumer satisfaction or failure modes. So much goes into making a production engine. When you purchased your Altima, you expected it to do at least 100K miles without any major problems, right? Well, Nissan (like everyone else) has to insure there products are gonna do 200K (estimated), so every part must be derated. EX: Even when your fuel injectors are at their 100% duty cycle, they're really only at 80% capacity. A 20% derating. Every part of the car is designed this way, and its pretty difficult because there are MANY different suppliers. It would be too expensive for Nissan to turbocharge the VQ and make it reliable. Thats why they engineered the VR V6 for the GT-R. Ask anyone you know how there supercharged VQ is doing after 50K miles. Nissan isn't the only one, try and turbocharge VWs VR6, LOL. I've personally destroyed someones 3.2CL in 15K miles with the help of Comptechs supercharger and fuel pump. I'd love to see an MKS try and chase down a G35 on the Nurburgring, I could laugh at that for hours just thinking about it. But I do think the turbo MKS will pull sub 6 sec 0-60's and 1/4's in 14-15s.

pzigly
June 9, 2008 6:11 AM
Nissan is known to have engines that can take high pressure. You need to maintain your car a lot more when you go turbo. When I went to the Stillen event in Costa Mesa there were a lot of turbo and supercharged g35's. They must be doing something right.... They dont just slap on a turbo. There is a lot of R&D to it.

With its heavy weight and and fords crapy transmission shifting maybe 5.9 to 6.3sec for the turbo.

benz_man
June 9, 2008 6:45 AM
Nissan IS known for having stock engines that can hold outlandish amounts of boost (The RB for instance). The VQ just isn't one of them. Did you read anything I wrote?

Yeah, the shift-logic on Fords "new" 6-speed is a joke. Hopefully they'll have added a little more intelligence by the time the MKS is out.

pzigly
June 9, 2008 7:00 AM
I need to check out the forums and stillen to see how long those engines last, because if an engine can post consistant numbers in the 290hp range (stock) and has a really good cooling system already, there has to be room for a 100-150 hp increase. At that Stillen show I saw a g35 on the dyno getting 550hp to the wheels and the owner was a old man. It was a daily driver. It was beautiful with nice rims and endless brake system. I dont see that engine failing any time soon because that would be a waste.

benz_man
June 9, 2008 7:32 PM
There is more power to be had from tuning the VQ. If you can feed it more air & fuel, ignite that with a hotter spark, and then get all the waste out in a rush the VQ could make upwards of 350HP with stock internals. The problems with forced induction are the stress loads on the open block, the crankshaft (and its bearings), the timing chain & VVT actuating sprockets and the Molybdenum pistons (particularly now that there skirts are asymmetrical). Then, if your not extra careful, the compressed air will start heating up the combustion mixture. That leads to detonation and so on... Not to mention what all that scorching hot turbo oil is doing to everything.

But I gotta say, pzigly this has been one of the most interesting conversations I've had on WCF. Thanx

pzigly
June 10, 2008 11:53 AM
Thanks, I dont think I ever wrote that much in college last semester lol. I finally met someone who knew more about nissan engins than I did lol. Check out thess kits http://www.stillen.com/browse.asp?c=PE&s=TURBO&year=2003&make=INFINITI&model=G35%202DR

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